The Best Video Cards (for PCs)

Posted by: Clark

The Best Video Cards (for PCs) - 04/16/09 07:27 AM

I made the following chart for PCs.
It may be applicable to Macs with Windows.
Or it may be of interest to a Mac person with extra space and money who wants to buy a PC rig for gaming.

My objective was to find the most powerful video cards for running X-Plane.
X-Plane is the only game I play.
I scanned the tech/gaming sites for benchmarks.
X-Plane is OpenGL.
I could only find one big name game that is OpenGL and is being used for benchtests; Enemy Territory; Quake Wars.
I took 35 benchtests of tech/gaming web sites using ET:QW to get my results.
I started out with a benchtest from ComputerPowerUser which had 6 video cards.
That benchtest was very close to the average results I was seeing in the other benchtests.
I then compared card to card.
For example, I calculated that the GTX 285 was on the average 4.8 fps faster than the GTX 280.
I would plug that into my chart and I would adjust it if necessary.
I am confident that the first 10 video cards are pretty much in the correct order because they are very consistent with the results of most benchtests.
One caveat: the GTX 295 was inconsistent. Four web sites believe the GTX 295 driver has to be improved.
Xbitlabs said that the GTX 295 failed when they enabled extremely high levels of antialiasing.
I only used single video cards for my results, no sli or cf.
The HD 4890 overclocks well and will rival the GTX 285 when OC'd.
As you can see "bandwidth" is not necessarily indicative of the results.

For Macs it is a lot easier. The HD 4870 is the best card followed by the HD 3870 and the 8800 GT comes in third place.
I am still talking about X-Plane. For other games the 8800 GT will probably beat the HD 3870.
My hope is the HD 4890 will become available for Macs.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: The Best Video Cards (for PCs) - 04/20/09 11:54 AM

See this?

NVIDIA unveils $1800 Quadro FX 4800 card for Apple's Mac Pro

The $1800 card boasts 192 parallel processor cores and a massive 1.5GB frame buffer with memory bandwidth of up to 76.8 GB/sec. NVIDIA says this architecture delivers high throughput for interactive visualization of large models, high-performance for real time processing of large textures and frames, and the highest quality and resolution with full-scene antialiasing.

Each Quadro FX 4800 also features a standard 3-pin stereo connector for true 3D stereoscopic imaging in modeling applications requiring 3D glasses, as well two dual-link DVI digital connectors capable of driving a pair of 30-inch Apple Cinema Displays

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/...es_mac_pro.html



Posted by: Clark

Re: The Best Video Cards (for PCs) - 04/20/09 12:47 PM

Yeah, I saw that, John.
That card will be nice for some of the professional people.
It would be great for professional applications like a 3D program.
But even if I had $1800 it wouldn't do too much for me however.
It wouldn't be the greatest gaming card in the history of the world.
For example:
It only has a bandwidth of 76.8 GB/s. That would bring it in at around number 13 on my video card chart.
The 1.5GB of vram is very impressive.
One person who runs X-Plane has a card with 1GB says that X-Plane uses all that vram for full screen anti-aliasing.
So the FX 4800 would probably come in handy that way.
On the other hand, ATI's 4870 X2 card has 2GB of vram and sales for less than $500. The 4870 X2 is a single card with 2 gpus.
And the 4870 X2 has a bandwidth of 115.2GB times two.

p.s. A little secret; I don't care at all for video cards. I just like looking at the pictures of the girls who are on them.

As normal, you can right click to make the picture larger. But everybody knows that.





Posted by: Clark

ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/20/09 01:25 PM

Rumor has that the HD 4870 X2 driver may be available with Snow Leopard or maybe even 10.5.7.
Because the HD 4870 X2 is basically two 4870 cards, it may be possible to flash a PC version and make it run under OS X.
So far it hasn't been done so it's appears unlikely.
If the HD 4870 X2 becomes available for Macs, I will be the first in line. And I'll think that I've done did died and gone to heaven!
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/20/09 03:52 PM

Hmmm.. what are my options. I have the XT1900 and it's the second one since the first one had overheating issues.

I see the Apple store has the ATI Radeon HD 4870 Graphics Upgrade Kit for Mac Pro... but it says that it's for the later Mac Pros... (Early 2009 or Early 2008)
Mine is from late 07.
I don't understand that... aren't the specs for PCIE the same as before?

Alas.. my system can't be getting long in the tooth already...
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/20/09 07:45 PM

The problem is with the firmware.
Your Mac Pro has EFI 32 firmware.
The HD 4870 has EFI 64 firmware and is not backwards compatible.

Possibly some good news for you... Some people are selling Mac compatible PC HD 4870 cards on eBay.
They claim their HD 4870 cards are EFI 32 and 64 compatible.
Or you could do it yourself and flash a PC HD 4870.

The eBay PC HD 4870 cards are not compatible with VGA monitors.
I've also heard that the PC HD 4870 cards lose some functions after being flashed but I can't verify that one way or the other.

One very good option for you is the ATI HD 3870.
The HD 3870 is compatible with EFI 32.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/20/09 08:33 PM

[censored]" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Radeon-HD-4870-5...%3A1%7C294%3A50
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 06:01 AM

Just got a reply...


$385. Should be selling some more soon.

Best regards,

- bruinmacs

Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 06:10 AM

I am and have been keeping a very close eye on eBay.
I have a 4870 512MB card on order from Apple.
I figure that is the safe way to go.
Problem is for X-Plane the HD 4870 1GB card will have more vram available for antialiasing and as you say, the HD 4870 1GB is available on eBay.

10.5.7 should be out this week.
I will be watching to see if it has the driver kexts for the 4870 1GB or the 4890 or the 4870 X2.

If someone sells a flashed 4870 X2 on eBay, I'll buy it in a heartbeat.
Same goes for the 4890.
And then I'll have to take my life because I'll have nothing to live for.
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 07:12 AM

Are you going to buy one?
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 11:30 AM

This is the cheap way of doing it, albeit time consuming
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 01:04 PM

I would like to buy one.
But, honestly, don't really need it. So, no.. not today.


I see one immediate issue with those flashing instructions.. in the first part of the directions it says that it will render 1 DVI defunct.

This guy on Ebay says you can run 2 30" screens when he's done.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 01:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Clark

And then I'll have to take my life because I'll have nothing to live for.


Until they release a 5GB 500GB/S card. wink
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 03:22 PM

I think I'll just wait for Snow Leopard and see what shakes out.
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 03:47 PM

You've saved my life. Thank you, thank you.
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 04:22 PM

Yes, I am hoping SN has some pleasant surprises.

The ATI Radeon 5XXX series will be released some time this year.
Maybe summer?
When that happens maybe ATI will release an HD 4890 for Macs.
Posted by: Clark

OMG!!! - 04/21/09 04:43 PM

You can not believe how close you are to being correct.

I was just looking at some stats for ATI's upcoming 5XXX series of cards.

It is almost beyond belief.
They will have a new 40nm die fabrication.
Thanks in part to the small size of the GPU, the HD 5870 X2 is going not have two seperate GPU's -- instead it will be two RV770 cores stacked on top of each other,
The clock speeds on these babies is amazing.
They will have 25% more stream processors than the 4890.

Radeon HD 5870 X4 (Dual MCM, 800MHz Core, 2GB 1200MHz GDDR5)
Radeon HD 5870 X2 (MCM, 800MHz Core, 1GB 1200MHz GDDR5)
Radeon HD 5870 (800MHz Core, 512MB 1200MHz GDDR5)
Radeon HD 5850 (600-650MHz Core, 512MB 1100MHz GDDR3)

My money says this chart is wrong:
I am guessing the 5870 will have 1GB of vram. Even if it starts out with 512MB of vram, the video card vendors will up it to 1GB.
The 5870 X2 will have 2GB of vram just like the 4870 X2.
The 5870 X2 will have 4GB of vram.

Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 05:05 PM

Quote:
The ATI Radeon 5XXX series will be released some time this year.
Maybe summer?
When that happens maybe ATI will release an HD 4890 for Macs.


Of course this all sticks in my craw.

I bought my MP thinking I wouldn't need to buy another tower for many years.. and it's already incompatible with vidcards 2 years later....
Posted by: Jim_

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
I bought my MP thinking I wouldn't need to buy another tower for many years.. and it's already incompatible with vidcards 2 years later....
Since about the only computer game I play is solitaire, I have some questions from a real world standpoint. I could Google it but I trust you guys. smile

My guess is you want the video card for gaming. I see both Windows and Mac users always chasing down the biggest peni... I mean biggest video card for gaming. wink Isn't pretty much any game out there that is available on a computer also available for a Play Station etc? Wouldn't it be a whole lot cheaper to just get one of those than always having to fork out the money for the video cards? I have read that in places, but was wondering what you all think. What's the difference between playing a game on the computer or a game box of some kind?

Again, combined with my general understanding, I know just enough about the gaming side of these here computer things to be able to ask these stupid questions.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 07:49 PM

My issue is with the card that I have.. the XT 1900. It's loud.
Why, because of the heat issues it's known for...

Yet, even though the forums are full of posts complining about the problem.. they are still only offering that card.. and it's still $399.00 from Apple. Yeah, I could buy a cheaper used one on Ebay... but how is that any better. I would still have a card known for it's heat and loud fan.


So... when this one craps out I wonder what options I will have.



And FWIW.. the v.1 that I had had problems with CoD2.. Apple gave me a version 2 and it plays CoD4 nicely.
The fan ramps up during play... but it doesn't bother me since I am wearing headphones... but the rest of the house...
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/21/09 08:21 PM

I don't blame you.

Sooner or later the HD 4890 will become available for Macs.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the HD 4890 will be EFI64 and EFI32 which will work with your computer.

Maybe either 10.5.7 or Snow Leopard will have drivers for cards that you can use.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/22/09 03:22 AM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4

Of course this all sticks in my craw.

I bought my MP thinking I wouldn't need to buy another tower for many years.. and it's already incompatible with vidcards 2 years later....


I feel your pain. I bought the 1st generation Powermac G5 and was stuck with only 1 option to upgrade video card, the X800 I think? The one that was incredibly hard to get ahold of?

Yeah, I learned my lesson then.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/22/09 04:37 AM

Yep... I will never buy a first gen Mac again.
I was also burnt on the first G4... it was supposed to be a 400 and was clocked back to a 350 and also had the old mobo in it.
Then I bought the first dual processor... the dual 450... Apple had to totally replace that machine after months of agony.

Nope.. never again.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/23/09 09:02 AM

[censored]" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Radeon-HD-4870-1...%3A1%7C294%3A50
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/23/09 10:05 AM

Hmmm.. Clark, this is an interesting thread...

Because it involves X-Plane.. and because it says this...

The Radeon HD 4870 is a welcome CTO option for the 'early 2009' Nehalem Mac Pro. And we're glad to see that it is sold in kit form. You will need the February 2009 ATI drivers but those should be available to all users in the next Apple system update. (Though Apple only officially supports it in the 2009 and 2008 Mac Pro, we have confirmed it runs in the 2007 and 2006 models.)
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/23/09 12:24 PM

You beat me to the punch.
From Barefeats:

"Apple is officially supporting only 2009 and 2008 Mac Pros with the Radeon HD 4870 kit. And it requires either the build of OS X 10.5.6 with the February 2009 ATI drivers -- or OS X 10.5.7 (not yet golden).

As with the Radeon HD 3870 and HD 2600, ATI included both a 32-bit and 64-bit EFI driver in the ROM, so it should work in all models of Mac Pro with the latest drivers. We installed in the Clovertown first generation 8-core Mac Pro (as you can see from the graphs above) and a close colleague installed it in a 2.66GHz Woodcrest 4-core first generation Mac Pro. As long as you have two power feeds for the card in your first generation Mac Pro and have the correct drivers properly installed, it should work fine."
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/23/09 12:47 PM

Ha! And I even forgot to post the link... doh!


Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/24/09 04:56 PM

Good news, it looks like they may have gotten a flashed PC 4870 X2 to work in the Mac Pro.

As you know. the 4870 X2 is two 4870 GPUs on one card, but it has
2GB of vram.

With that I could rule the world.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/25/09 11:18 AM

Cool!

Where do you see that... and is it 32/64?
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/25/09 12:49 PM

A guy (poster) named Netkas has been doing a good job getting drivers to work on PC cards.
Here is a running commentary.
Look mainly at the last 15 to 20 posts.

I don't know if it is 32/64 but my money says it is because it looks to me like all the flashed cards are 32/64.

Tell you what, I'll ask him. You'll see his reply.

Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/25/09 04:19 PM

I saw it.. good news for the 32/64 question.... not for the 4870 X2 not being any faster than the 4870. I wonder how that can be...?
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/25/09 04:22 PM

Can you ask him to elaborate.. is it any stock card.. or does he mean any flashed card?
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/26/09 04:17 AM

I asked and received two replies.

I don't understand, however.
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/27/09 12:27 PM

Here is a nice little web site for learning how to flash a PC 4870 card.

I really like that they are able to flash a 1GB 4870 card.
Believe it or not, that 1GB vram could make a big difference for when I run X-Plane.
Posted by: Clark

10.5.7 and the HD 4890 - 04/27/09 03:45 PM

Netkas is pretty certain that the HD 4890 will work on the Mac Pro.
For some reason he seems to waiting on 10.5.7.

I looked at 8 OpenGL benchtests with the HD 4890 and the HD 4870.
At the best, the 4890 beat the 4870 by 14.8 percent.
At the worst, the 4890 beat the 4870 by 10.7 percent.
The HD 4890 beat the HD 4870 by an average of 13.5 percent.

Netkas says that THIS is the HD 4890.

Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: 10.5.7 and the HD 4890 - 04/27/09 05:42 PM

Is the PC version of that card already released? I guess it must be.
Good.. by the time I wait.. it'll be on OSX and proven.
Posted by: Clark

Re: 10.5.7 and the HD 4890 - 04/27/09 08:18 PM

It was released on April 2nd.
It is showing very nice benchmarks.

Some people think the HD 4890 is a version of the HD 4870.
It is not.
The HD 4890 has 1GB of vram.
There is a HD 4870 1GB video card also.
The HD 4890 will take the 4870 1GB card to the cleaners.

Because the 4890 and 4870 are different gpus, I am very surprised that they could find drivers to flash the PC HD 4890 card.
I don't know how in the heck they do it.

I can understand the The 4870 X2 and the 4870 1GB cards being able to be flashed because they are in the same family as the 4870 512MB card.
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/29/09 11:00 AM

The 4870 X2 is two GPUs on one card.
If I am understanding correctly, you can only flash one of those GPUs, therefore it becomes just a single 4870 card.

My 4870 (512MB) card is being shipped to me as we speak.

They are still talking like 10.5.7 will be a savior with drivers for video cards like the 4890 and some NVIDIA GTX cards.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/29/09 01:04 PM

Holy crap.. I don't even require a card right now.. but all this talk has me itching in a bad way. shocked shocked
Posted by: Clark

Re: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - 04/29/09 01:34 PM

I think this is a bad time to buy a card right now.
I regret I did so.
I think there is some nice stuff coming down the pike.
Unfortunately patience has never been a virtue of mine.

So, hold off and hang in there and you'll do well
Posted by: Clark

NVIDIA GTX 285 - 04/29/09 04:18 PM

I don't know how true this is but according to Engadget the GTX 285 is coming to Macs in June.

The GTX 285 is the most powerful single gpu video card available to consumers!

Like I said, stay tuned, good things are coming!
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: NVIDIA GTX 285 - 04/29/09 05:11 PM

Wow!

And it's always good to read all the comments from Mac-bashers...lol!
Posted by: Clark

Re: NVIDIA GTX 285 - 04/29/09 07:51 PM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
And it's always good to read all the comments from Mac-bashers...lol!


Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: NVIDIA GTX 285 - 04/30/09 11:52 AM

More info...


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/29/nvidia_prepping_geforce_gtx_285_for_mac_pro.html


http://www.pcworld.com/article/164165/report_nvidia_geforce_gtx_285_graphics_card_is_macbound.html


It seems that it won't have the display port.. gah... always sumptin'.
Posted by: Clark

Re: NVIDIA GTX 285 - 04/30/09 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
It seems that it won't have the display port.. gah... always sumptin'.


Yep, you are not the only unhappy person.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: NVIDIA GTX 285 - 05/04/09 06:36 AM

[censored]" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Radeon-HD-4870-1...%3A1%7C294%3A50

Tempting, but I'm holding on to my money right now.
Posted by: Clark

Re: NVIDIA GTX 285 - 05/08/09 04:25 PM

I sent my 4870 (512MB) card back to Apple.
I want something bigger and better even if it is the 4870 1GB card.
The 4870 driver is in 10.5.7. I wonder what else may be available with 10.5.7?
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: NVIDIA GTX 285 - 05/08/09 05:51 PM

I sent my 4870 (512MB) card back to Apple.

Wow! ...lol... did you even open it?
Posted by: Clark

Re: NVIDIA GTX 285 - 05/08/09 08:40 PM

.
.No, I didn't. crazy
.
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: NVIDIA GTX 285 - 05/09/09 08:52 AM

I've been happy with my HD4850 so far, but I'm starting to want something else... lol.

I wonder if I should just get another 4850 and xfire them together. That's still a wicked fast setup, and would push this 22" monitor for another year probably. Plus it would cost only about $100.

I did break down and buy a Zalman cooler for the thing. Went from 80C during games to less than 40C. But it is the original card, the newer ones don't have the same heat issues I don't believe.
Posted by: Clark

Re: NVIDIA GTX 285 - 05/09/09 01:10 PM

Two 4850s in CF is still hard to beat.
Probably even beat the GTX 285.

Every now and then I hear about heat or noise issues but who knows why.
Maybe the card was too far overclocked or maybe the computer was in a very hot room.
But you've got a Zalman cooler so you should be golden.

I've got an idea on a way you could spend some money.
How about buying a Core i7 965 processor, liquid cool the thing and overclock it to 5.5GHz?

I forget. What games games do you like play?
If I remember correctly, Q3A, Unreal Tournamnet, and Crysis?


Posted by: Clark

GTX 285 - 05/16/09 07:13 AM

I put my order in for the GTX 285.

I have been looking at numerous web sites regarding flashed 4870 and 4890 video cards.

The one thing that all these flashed video cards have in common; they all have a 2.5 GT/s "link speed."
My Mac Pro takes video cards with 5.0 GT/s "link speeds" but it is backwards compatible with 2.5 GT/s video cards.
They tell me that video cards can't use all that bandwidth (5.0 GT/s) anyway but I still want to stay with my 5.0 GT/s "link speed."

I then only have two choices; the HD 4870 512MB card or the GTX 285 1GB card.
Since I want a 1 GB card, the GTX 285 is the one and only choice for me.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 - 05/18/09 04:53 PM

Where are you ordering that from??

Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 - 05/18/09 08:02 PM

.
From Provantage. They are over forty bucks cheaper than OWC.

It's far from cheap but what the heck, you only live once.

I've also decided to throw Windows XP into my computer and run X-Plane via Bootcamp.
The GTX 285 may run better in Windows than with OS X.
And X-Plane under Windows has some very nice Garmin GNS 430/530 and G1000 software that is only available for Windows.

By the way, no surprise but 1st gen Mac Pros are running the new 4870 Mac card thanks to 10.5.7.
Does the 4870 have the ports that you need?
.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 - 05/19/09 04:48 AM

Hmmm... not really. I could live with 2 DVIs... but it looks like Apple is phasing them out. I pretty much require a high end, color correct monitor... so Apple is usually the way I would lean. Thus, I need the new connector and there will be no adapter since the technology doesn't work that way.
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 - 05/19/09 07:34 AM

Yep, I'm pretty much in the same boat.
I've got a 21" Sony CRT monitor. Wonderful monitor in it's day.
It's starting to have problems so I've got to look for a new high end, color correct LCD monitor.
MacWorld likes LaCie so I am leaning in that direction.

I don't suppose you'd like to lend me a grand or two?
.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 - 05/20/09 11:39 AM


From Provantage. They are over forty bucks cheaper than OWC


Uh... holy crud.. it says that card is $436.00!

Did you get your order in before it said Backordered?
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 - 05/20/09 01:20 PM

.
It's been known all along that the GTX 285 would not be available until June.
My shipping date is June 3rd which isn't too bad.

"Uh... holy crud.. it says that card is $436.00!"

Oh yeah. Video cards for Macs have always been high.
The HD 4870 512MB card at the Apple Store costs $349.00.
You can get the same video card for PCs at Newegg for $160.00.
Did you know that most video cards for Macs are underclocked?
Underclocked and overpriced!

Everything is relative, if you are German, you will spend 719 USD for the GTX 285.

Every couple years I buy a new Mac tower.
I always get the most powerful video card.
And that video card is always light years behind the PC video cards.
For example, I bought my Mac Pro with a 8800 GT in January 2008.
The PC people already had the 8800 GTX and 8800 Ultra. 2 months later they had the 9800 GX2.
To make things worse, the Mac 8800 GT driver is so shabby, the HD 3870 was/is making a mockery of it.

For the first time with the GTX 285 I will have a video card that even a PC person would be proud of.
.


Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 - 05/20/09 06:00 PM

For the first time with the GTX 285 I will have a video card that even a PC person would be proud of.


Yeah, it's true.. you get what you pay for...

Except when you a buy card from Apple.....lol

It does sound impressive. Eagerly awaiting your report.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: GTX 285 - 06/08/09 10:44 AM

What do you think of the news today?

Quote:
Open CL: Hardware abstraction, C-based language, Automatic optimization, Numerical accuracy.
Open CL. Use GPU power with this open standard.
We've decided to make it an open standard." Big cheers for that one. "All the top manufacturers of graphics cards are involved."

10:39AM "Now let's talk graphics. The way to use GPU power is OpenGL, but we want to move beyond that. We've devised a technology called OpenCL.
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 - 06/08/09 01:14 PM

.
I've yet to figure it out, John. I think applications have to be built for Snow Leopard in order to make use of OpenCL.
Any way you look at it, it will be fanastic but how long will it be before OpenCL is being used?
Maybe QuickTime and iLife will use OpenCL?
.
be, before, being? That's quite a sentence I used there.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: GTX 285 - 06/08/09 01:43 PM

Quote:
be, before, being? That's quite a sentence I used there.


You're quite lucid today. laugh
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 - 06/08/09 01:52 PM

.
I didn't know anybody looked at this forum. grin
.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 - 06/08/09 05:31 PM

Not us!
Posted by: Jim_

Re: GTX 285 - 06/08/09 06:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Clark
.
I didn't know anybody looked at this forum. grin
.
I'm everywhere.
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 - 06/13/09 06:27 AM

My GTX 285 has arrived.
It has two power cables included.
I'll have it up and running tomorrow.
I've got WinXP installed with Boot Camp.
Get this one... I am getting 3 to 4 times better frame rates with X-Plane in Boot Camp than I am in OS X. That's with my 8800 GT card.
That tells me that NVIDIA has much better drivers for Windows than they do for OS X.
I am making a table of the results. I will include the GTX 285 also.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 - 06/13/09 07:57 AM

Sweet. Can you take a pic of it before installation?
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 - 06/13/09 09:14 AM

.
Yep, can do.
.
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 - 06/14/09 02:36 PM

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I did it.
Installed the GTX 285 video card.
Installed 4GB of memory for a total of 16GB.
Installed a 1TB hard drive for a total of 2,207GB.

The GTX 285 is nice and quiet at least while idling.
I haven't put it through it's paces though.
Doing that all that installing gets me exhausted even though I've done it a million times before.
I post pictures and some bench tests tomorrow.




Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 - 06/14/09 02:52 PM

Very nice...
It's like modding your car...lol

Vroom Vrooom!
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 - 06/15/09 10:15 AM

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Vroom Vrooom!

That's what I'm hoping for.

Here are two pictures of my GTX 285.
I screwed up and forgot to charge my flash unit.
I took the pictures with the existing light and used Photoshop's Levels and Curves.
AND...my monitor is really not feeling well.
I can not longer even calibrate it.
Can you please tell me if the pictures are too light or too dark or if they have a strange tint to them? Thank you.

I'll post some benchmarks later today or tomorrow.

(right click to make larger)


Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 - 06/15/09 10:32 AM

Niiice...
I like that it's all black. smile

The pics look fine... a bit noisy.. but that's to be expected. I'm surprised that it says you shot with 2.2 aperture though.

Let's see some frame rates now!


Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 - 06/15/09 10:53 AM

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I probably shot it at a pretty high ISO.
I was anxious to get it into my computer.
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Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: GTX 285 - 06/15/09 11:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Clark

AND...my monitor is really not feeling well.
I can not longer even calibrate it.


What? all that and you have a monitor that doesn't work well?? crazy laugh
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 - 06/15/09 11:10 AM

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Too bad you don't live closer, you could just shoot me.
I was hoping to put off buying a new monitor but I don't think I'll be able to.
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Posted by: Clark

GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 06/16/09 01:01 PM

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I benched tested the new GTX 285 Mac Edition and the 8800 GT Mac Edition using X-Plane.
I used the same version (9.22 rc1) for both OS X 10.5.7 and Boot Camp WinXP.
I flew in North Dakota in order to eliminate as many objects and scenery as possible thereby making X-Plane as efficient as possible.
The flight was from Grand Forks (KGFK) to Crookston (KCKN). The length of the flight is 23.59 nautical miles and took 7 1/2 minutes.
I used a King Air B200 with a ground speed of 240 knots.
The renderings (1600 x 1200, 8xAA) and weather was exactly the same in both OS X and WinXP.
I flew three times for each video card and each operating system for a total of 12 flights. I averaged out the fps.

The 8800 GT Mac Edition is 2.3 times faster running under Boot Camp (WinXP) than the same 8800 GT running under Mac OS X 10.5.7.

Running under the same OS (Mac OS X 10.5.7), the GTX 285 Mac Edition is 2.7 times faster than the 8800 GT Mac Edition.

Running under the same OS (Boot Camp WinXP), the GTX 285 Mac Edition is 1.6 times faster than the 8800 GT Mac Edition.

My conclusion is the NVIDIA cards run much faster under Windows than they do with Mac OS X.

(right click to make larger)

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Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 06/16/09 03:22 PM

Sounds like you need to get a Dell wink
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 06/16/09 03:40 PM

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Hey! Not in a million friggin' years.
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Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 06/16/09 04:13 PM

Wow! Stunning figures...
I guess we all knew it was faster under Windows. It's a crying shame we can't get decent drivers written for the Mac OS.

165 FPS average @ 8X AA is pretty friggin amazing stuff. Congrats.

Does it seem smoooother?
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 06/16/09 08:38 PM

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"Does it seem smoooother?"

It's very nice and smooooth, yes.
But I haven't put it through it's paces.
I've got a lot of objects and scenery in cities like Boston.
That is where X-Plane takes a huge hit.
Most video cards will come to a grinding halt with that much scenery.
Tomorrow I'll fly into Boston. I'll let you know what happens.
I'll take a picture also of Logan Airport. I made a lot of planes for the International Concourse.
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Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 06/18/09 07:26 AM

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X-Plane really is brutal.
I made got a lot objects (planes, building, ground vehicles) for Boston's Logan Airport.
Those objects and scenery really take a toll on X-Plane.
In order to fly smoothly into Boston I had to lower the renderings considerably.
For example, I made the anti-aliasing zero as compared to 8x in my bench tests.
My average fps was around 45.
I can't compare it to X-Plane in Windows because I haven't transferred my scenery and objects over to X-Plane in WinXP as yet.
Here are some pictures of what my scenery looks like at Logan Airport:
By the way, none of those buildings or planes come with X-Plane.

(right click to make larger)


Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 07/10/09 06:50 PM

Cool!

It looks like you are having some major fun there..


I don't know if you saw in the lounge.. but Apple is replacing my 1st gen MP with a new one.
Totally unexpected. I took it in for repair on the analog audio port...lol.
The only upgrade I did was to get the 4870 512.

I have been poring over every stat I can find. Barefeats has lots... here's one with X-Plane as one of the tests.

http://www.barefeats.com/nehal10.html
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 07/10/09 06:55 PM

Actually you would like this one better since it compares your 285 to my 4870.

http://www.barefeats.com/nehal11.html

I have to say the 4870 holds its own considering that half of those cards tested have 2-3X the ram.

Oh well... I only paid the $200.00 upgrade for it and it is going to smoke the XT1900 I currently have in my 1st gen.


Oh. and this one.

http://www.barefeats.com/nehal12.html


You've prolly already seen these.
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 07/10/09 07:51 PM

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I just saw your post in the Lounge. You lucky sob, you. Congratulations!

I look at Barefeats all the time.
If the HD 4870 had come with 1GB of vram, I would have gotten it.
For textures in X-Plane, I have to have 1GB of vram. That's why I went with the GTX 285.

Under Boot Camp, the GTX 285 really shows it's power.

If/when ATI brings out the HD 5870 for Macs, I will probably trade in my GTX 285 for the 5870.

I don't know if you know this but I just bought a 30 inch monitor.
The GTX 285 runs that 30 inch behemoth like a charm.
With X-Plane, the scenery is so beautiful I feel like I've done did died and gone to heaven.
I guess I live for X-Plane.

Congratulations on both your new computer and your new video card.

I suppose I should explain this chart.
The guy was using a PC with a 9800GTX+ card.
He said that with texture compression turned off, he found that X-Plane uses vram as high as 940mb at 16x AA.

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Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 07/10/09 09:16 PM

I just saw your post in the Lounge. You lucky sob, you. Congratulations!


LOL... don't I know it! And only 3 months or so till my AppleCare runs out...hehe.


I play CoD4 nearly every night, at least for a round or two...or 6. grin

If you look at this link on Apples site you can see the CoD4 test with the 4870.

And I have the XT 1900 which is way below the Baseline for their test. So I'm going to really enjoy this new MP.

I'm also grappling with the possibility of putting an SSD drive for a boot.
You can get them for around $250.00 now for 128GB.

I'm thinking maybe this one... although I'm scoping out several.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139007

I feel... the need... for SPEED!!!
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 07/11/09 06:27 AM


Moved to SSD post.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 07/13/09 03:20 PM


http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20090713093736175
Posted by: Clark

Re: GTX 285 vs 8800 GT - 07/13/09 03:34 PM

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Thank you.
I don't understand it though. That driver has been out for a month already.
It is good to know that the driver is necessary for 10.5.8.
Thank you for the heads up.
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Posted by: Clark

A New Chart - 07/15/09 01:52 PM

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But the information is the same...

(right click to make larger)

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Posted by: MicMeister

Re: A New Chart - 07/16/09 06:04 AM

Interesting...looks like NVidia is suffering from ATI'ism...oh wait, actually ATI has proven themselves consistently in making poor drivers for both platforms. Or is that about the X-Plane code itself?
Posted by: Clark

Re: A New Chart - 07/16/09 06:29 AM

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I think ATI does well with OSX. NVIDIA works very well with Windows.
Even though ATI has better Mac drivers, the GTX 285 is so powerful it still performs decently with OSX.
Maybe NVIDIA will keep bringing out improved drivers for the GTX 285 to make it even more formidable.
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