Shoppin for a new Camera...

Posted by: zwei

Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 11:56 AM

I know several of you guys know a lot about cameras so I'd like to get your opinions on the matter. The wife is looking into getting an intro level DSLR. Personally, I'd like to stick with a prosumer camera (for video and live preview capabilities) ...she's mostly worried about low-light performance.

Some of the cameras I've been looking into are..

Canon Powershot G10
Canon Rebel (several different models)
Nikon D40/40X, D60

What would you guys recommend?
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 01:44 PM

Depends on your budget really.

I just PMed you on iChat this camera
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/580422-REG/Nikon_25448_D90_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

Nikon D90 SLR Digital Camera with Nikon 18-105mm VR Lens

* 12.3 Megapixel
* DX Format CMOS Sensor
* 3" VGA LCD Display
* Live View
* Self Cleaning Sensor
* D-Movie Mode
* High Sensitivity (ISO 3200)
* 4.5 fps Burst
* In-Camera Image Editing
* GPS geo-tagging


So you can do low-light, live preview, & video.
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 03:15 PM

With the lens being f/3.5-5.6, wouldn't it be too slow for low light photography (even with VR)?
Posted by: trey

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 03:23 PM

If you want low light, then you should go Canon. Even the Rebel is better than most of the stuff that Nikon offers. I'm not trying to flame Nikon, as I like their system (the SB800 can't be beat, and screw Canon's jog wheel thingie), but in my various employments over the past few years, I've worked with most of the DSLRs these companies have produced, and for low light, Nikon is teh suxxorz. My 20D at 1600 is cleaner than a D2Xs at 800. Well, that may be a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.

GO with the 5D if you can afford it, and the 50mm 1.4 is only around $300.00. That should keep you and her busy for awhile.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 03:53 PM

Right now I'm looking hard at the Canon EOS 450D ...weeding through the extremely long review over at dpreview.com. That's about the price range I'm looking at too wink
Posted by: Pirate

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 04:08 PM

Back in the film days I liked Nikon better than Canon, but it is hard to beat a Canon these days, price and quality in one package
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 05:42 PM

Yeah, Nikon's produce terrible noise.



Shot at ISO 25,600, f/10, .8sec
Posted by: MrB

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 05:43 PM

One needs to embrace the grain. They are all good.

dave

Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 05:45 PM

But seriously, the D60, D90, D300, D700 & D3 cameras smoke the old D2xs, D200, etc cameras.

Chances are, you probably won't be doing a lot of high ISO shots, since most people use flash.

I say get something you can afford, don't listen to us Nikon/Canon users because everyone has their preference.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 06:09 PM

I've started looking at the EOS 1000D (XS) ...I can get it for $475 at Amazon.com ...here's a sample gallery I found

http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/canoneos1000D_preview/

HERE is an image comparison page between the 1000D and the Nikon D60

HERE is an image comparison between the 1000D and the 450D

For ~$150 less I can deal with the image quality of the 1000D. The 450 is a bit faster and has a couple other advancements, but none that I'm that worried about. They both shoot .cr2 RAW files (which work fine in iPhoto and OSX in general) so I can probably start shooting in RAW full time.
Posted by: trey

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 06:43 PM

Again, there is no similarity to film grain and digital noise. It's apples and monkeys.

I love film grain (much to the chagrin of one of my anally retentive photography professors), but there is nothing aesthetically pleasing or redeeming about Bayer Filter noise. This is, of course, my opinion and is only worth so much.
Posted by: trey

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 06:47 PM

Quote:
since most people use flash/


Flash is nice, but nothing beats using natural light. I try to use flash only as a last resort in low light situations. Lights are best used to open up shadows in bright sunlight or balance interior light against strong window light.

Again, this is all subjective.
Posted by: MrB

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 08:38 PM

I think worrying about noise is over rated as long as it's kept under control. My D200 works quite well up to around 1200 ISO depending on the subject. But this speed works much better than normal film of yesteryear.

dave

Posted by: walzuhair

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/12/08 09:39 PM

Guys, try to avoid going into brand wars wink

Posted by: SteveS

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/13/08 06:36 AM

You can't go wrong with either Canon or Nikon. There are a few other dSLRs that are becoming competitive, but these two brands are clear leaders. I'm using a Canon, but I've know others with Nikons and have tried their equipment as well. Both are excellent. When you chose your camera, you might want to consider the lenses you'll purchase later. Eventually, your lens collection may outweigh your investment in your camera.

For low light performance, the lens you choose has a significant impact as well. Fortunately, you can get a good f1.4 prime lens pretty cheap.

Finally, if you're not already shooting in RAW, you'll appreciate the amount of image recovery possible with that format, especially when using nice software like Aperture. Good luck... let us know what you choose.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/13/08 07:50 AM

I'm going to have to read up and learn about cameras ...I'm admittedly ignorant about most of the lingo relating to lenses. Anyone know of a site that explains this stuff fairly well?
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/13/08 08:37 AM

I think you can ask here and we can answer.

What do you need to know?
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/13/08 08:51 AM

Oh ...everything :P

I don't know what f/stops mean ...don't really know much about focal ranges like 18mm to 55mm (I know lower numbers = wider angle and larger numbers = more zoom) ...and all I know about aperture setting is that the lower the number the more light it lets in and gives greater depth of field.

I'd hate to burden you guys with most of that junk ...once I get the basics understood I'd plan on coming back and asking more fruitful questions wink

I guess I'd really just like to know more about what makes a lens good for low-light situations right now ...and I'm guessing that has to do with f/stop? ...according to SteveS' post above.
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/13/08 08:56 AM

Originally Posted By: zwei
I'm going to have to read up and learn about cameras ...I'm admittedly ignorant about most of the lingo relating to lenses. Anyone know of a site that explains this stuff fairly well?


Try the glossary at dpreview.com
Posted by: EzyriderTX

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/13/08 08:59 AM

I just traded in my D70 for a D200. Wow what a difference. The D200 has taken a lot of getting used to. I might have to go to Nikon School just to understand all of the intricacies of this monster.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/13/08 09:14 AM

Originally Posted By: walzuhair

Excellent ...thanks!

Can't believe I missed it ...I've been looking at the reviews on that site more than any other crazy
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/13/08 09:20 AM

You're welcome, Zach...

I was wondering where the thread went, hehe..
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/13/08 10:34 AM

Originally Posted By: walzuhair
You're welcome, Zach...

I was wondering where the thread went, hehe..

lol ..me too. I see we got a new forum as well.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/13/08 12:54 PM

Tried to delete this post ...said I couldn't.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/14/08 05:00 PM

Well, I think I've decided on my camera. The Canon EOS Rebel XS. From everything I'm reading it sounds like a good choice for someone just getting into DSLRs.

I do have a question about SDHC cards though. Has anyone here had any experience with THIS CARD? Or what is your recommendation for a 4GB card?
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 11/14/08 06:11 PM

I'm not too familiar with Transcend, but I tend to stick to the name brands: Sandisk and Lexar.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171214

Just remember, you get what you pay for. Transcend may be good, but then again...look at the reviews that you gave the link for.

Oh, and of course you will have to show us some pictures!
Posted by: SteveS

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 12/01/08 01:46 PM

Quote:
Well, I think I've decided on my camera. The Canon EOS Rebel XS.


I think you'll be happy with that choice. Actually, either Canon or Nikon is a very solid choice. Though, chances are, you'll eventually want to move beyond your kit lens. Most people view their lenses as the greater investment over the camera itself. Unfortunately, this sort of locks people into one system on another.

With that said, you might want to be careful with any future lens you buy. You may be tempted to get an EF-S lens, but remember, they are only good for the smaller APS-C equivalent sensors (like the Canon XS). Canon actually just came out with a decent 18mm-200mm zoom in that format. Eventually, full frame sensors will be affordable to the masses. When that happens it would be nice not to dispose of your lens collection.

Anyway, enjoy and let us know how things go. If this is your first dSLR experience, you'll be amazed at the performance and quality of your new camera. Imagine no shutter lag, fast processing, low noise, better autofocus, etc. in every shot. People might actually start to think you know what you're doing! grin
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 12/01/08 06:02 PM

I've already ordered it ...I actually got another lens with it. It's not an outstanding lens, but I couldn't pass it up. They had a promotion where it was $100 off when I bought it with the camera.

This is the lens

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004THD0
Posted by: SteveS

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 12/02/08 08:38 AM

Ah... you fell for the promotion... wink It should be okay as long as you keep your expectations in check. Like anything else, you get what you pay for. If you're using a tripod or you have a very steady hand in good lighting, this should be okay. Unfortunately, good lenses cost a lot of money. For Canon, the L series is the high quality but very costly set of lenses.

However, you can get a nice step up for a reasonable price.

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-70-300mm-4-5...6Q5MMC94NE0DZBK

It's basically the same thing but it has image stabilization and a USM motor for quiet and fast autofocus. The bigger the zoom lens, the more important image stabilization becomes. But, as you mentioned, for $100, you can't really go to wrong, especially when you're experimenting and learning, etc. Let me know what you think of it once you get it.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 12/02/08 08:49 AM

It was $100 off ...not $100 wink So the lens ended up costing me ~$60. I do know all about its limitations but I figured it was definitely worth $60. If I find that I don't like it I'll just sell it and make a bit of money in the process smile

Next lens I'm going to buy will be a 50mm Prime.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 12/03/08 12:13 PM

Well, I got the camera yesterday and took a couple pics with it. Unfortunately my memory card hasn't shown up yet so I had to shoot these pics while attached to my iMac with a USB cable laugh

First is a pic of my son ...the second is my snazzy keychain. Both were taken with the 18-55 kit lens in full auto mode. It was pretty dark in the room. With the way the pictures are turning out thus far, I'll have no problem shooting in auto until I thoroughly read the instruction manual.

The full-size images are linked ...you'll have to right-click and open them in a new tab to check them out though.



Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 12/03/08 04:08 PM

Wow, are you getting details in those pics!
Posted by: giftshoppe

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/11/09 02:00 AM

I think everything seems nice.but you need to fine the best and cheaper one and could be used as anywhere you want to.
__________________________________________
Look for the groomsman gifts.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/11/09 04:57 AM

Well... I'm late to this thread.. but since some spammer bumped it... shocked

Transcend is ok. I have a couple and they never let me down.

Congrats on the camera.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/11/09 05:01 AM

Hey John... I know you were being sarcastic... but I don't get it. I see that you shot this pic at high ISO... but, yes, it is noisy as hell.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/11/09 05:21 AM

Well, at that high ISO, I would expect some noise. Try that with any other camera with no NR and see what you get.
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/11/09 05:27 AM

At ISO 25600 I would call that not really noisy at all. He must have had a firefly, maybe two, as a light source. You could get a picture of sin with that camera at ISO 25600. With a little noise but sin is always noisy.

So I think he is like the dude in Spinal Tap with the amp that goes to 11. I don't think I have ever even heard of an ASA over 1600. Is there something that goes to 51200? I think I'll wait for that ;-)
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/11/09 06:12 AM

Poly, Nikon came out with these high ISO-shooters last year. First it was the D3 and then the D700.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/11/09 06:40 AM

First time I've had a spambot resurrect one of my threads. laugh
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/11/09 05:06 PM

I understand all of that... I'm just not grokking why that would be an example of no noise.

The high ISO has been out for a while... but with that kind of noise.....I would think it would be best in a situation with a bit more light. I used 640 and 800 for a 3 day event last week.... a little bit noisy but since I was photographing people with flash it worked.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/12/09 03:23 AM

Obviously I would have used more light. My response was actually to Trey:

Quote:
If you want low light, then you should go Canon. Even the Rebel is better than most of the stuff that Nikon offers. I've worked with most of the DSLRs these companies have produced, and for low light, Nikon is teh suxxorz. My 20D at 1600 is cleaner than a D2Xs at 800. Well, that may be a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.


So I took a quick shot with the highest ISO my camera goes to just to show how Nikon has improved with noise.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/12/09 06:22 AM

While you guys have better cameras than I do ...I do know the entry level cameras from Canon had a lot better low light performance than the entry Nikons. The Nikon D40-D60 compared to the Rebel XS-XSi
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/12/09 06:31 AM

And since this a "shopping for a new camera thread" my favorite camera, the Panasonic Lumix TZ5 is being upgraded.

Lumix TZ 7 will be out soon. The enhancements are mostly on the video side with two microphones.


edit: TZ7
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/12/09 08:36 AM

OK now.. you're not about to turn this into another Lumix thread! LOL
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 03/12/09 08:36 AM

Ahh.. I understand now.
Totally misread the posts...

Nikon has come a long way in this regard.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe2

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 04/01/09 04:47 AM

Hi Zach,

Hope all is well.
I've had a Rebel XT for a few years now and love it. Got alot of help on this site http://photography-on-the.net/forum/ great resource and everyone is very helpful. Also you may want to check this lens http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00007E7JU/?tag=iguzz14-20
very cheap and very fast, in terms of low light shooting 1.8 aperture (big opening lets in alot of light). It is a prime lens so you "zoom" with your feet as they say. I got this and used it alot instead of the kit lens. Then I upgraded to a 2.8 zoom lens http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/284399-REG/Tamron_AF09C700_28_75mm_f_2_8_XR_Di.html
I think I paid about $300 and it is on my camera all the time. It is "fast" enough at f 2.8 and with the zoom it is a great "swiss army knife" lens for me. Anyways, just my 2 cents as I started down this same road getting into DSLR a few years ago.

Joe
PS please note the TAmron I referenced is F2.8 through the whole focal range, unlike the kit lens that where the aperture changes as you zoom. Also, learn to shot in manual it really isn't that difficult and your results will be much much better.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Shoppin for a new Camera... - 04/01/09 05:30 AM

That's the lens I had my eye on (the 1.8) ...I'm sure I'll pick it up for the wife on her birthday this year smile