bye bye G4?

Posted by: Anonymous

bye bye G4? - 05/21/01 12:55 AM

Hello all... may be a bit early with this since this forum is just a go go.<br>But, the company that I work for has one Mac (the one I'm typing on at the moment) which they wish to replace with a PC.<br><br>Unfortunately I'm a graphic designer and this Mac is used basically to design marketing and print materials in Quark Xpress 4.1 then burn them onto a Mac format CD. A process, which for 6 months has not let us down. Please note we are talking multi-national here i.e sending discs to printers and magazines and exhibition builders in Europe and the States. So my question(s) as a completely non-PC person surrounded by PC people telling me it will work fine! (Not one magazine I have spoken to so far seems willing to take a Mac disc) are:<br><br>A) Should I be concerned at this turn of events?<br>- i.e. Can I survive in a print world with a PC - any experiences out there please? What won't work?<br><br>B)Can you write a Mac Format CD from a PC?<br><br>Ewan<br><br>
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: Similar experiences - 05/21/01 09:37 AM

You CAN do acceptable work for your employer on the PC. There will be a switchover learning curve for you (and for your IT people who will have to support a graphics/publication equipped PC). <br><br>Although retired 3 years now, I was forced to use a PC. I had more RAM, better graphics card, Adobe Type Manager (that'll give ur IT folks fits!) a scanner hooked up, pen pad, camera and all kinds of different applications which the IT folks hadn't used and did not understand. <br><br>They ended up telling my boss to get pro outside help for my needs. It cost big big bucks. I spent time on the phone solving my own problems with Adobe, Macromedia and others (which we paid big big bucks for support). I needed that technical help (and I was considered a really smart computer geek) when they kept pushing me to use the newest, greatest technologies as soon as they hit the pavement. <br><br>I was glad for all of the attention and the learning experiences they were giving me. Oh yes, they paid $500 to $1,000 for courses I took too! I loved it. Especially since I usually had the latest, greatest Macintosh to come home to at night! <br><br>I agree with those who say -- you (a Mac user) can use a PC and you can get the work done. Just be sure to let your bosses know there may be a few bumps here and there as you redirect your years of experiences to a "slightly" different way of thinking and working. <br><br>Then be glad for the PC experience. It will broaden your skills and make your services even more valuable in the future. As someone else suggested, look for another job on a Macintosh. I always kept my foot in the door in case something else came along. Good luck!<br><br><br><br>* * * * * * * * ** * * *<br>Kate<br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: bye bye G4? - 05/25/01 09:13 PM

i am brash... and self-employed. that said, if someone forced me to use a pc, i'd surely find another job pronto. but that's me.<br><br>
Posted by: johnengler

Re: bye bye G4? - 05/26/01 07:04 AM

yeah, that's you.... I'm now forced to use a NT 4.0 machine at work... the only difference between it and Mac OS 9 is that I can fix my Mac at home when it crashes, and when my NT box crashed at work, I just restart, write down what happened, and turn in a log to my sys admin at the end of the week (who does nothing about the crashes....) geez... that said, Lon, it's tough to find a job out there that doesn't make you use a PC (they just don't understand the benefits... they just don't)<br><br>Used to be at that other Mac website... like it here now.
Posted by: Anonymous

When It Comes to Graphics... - 05/26/01 08:42 AM

...it's not so tough to find a job using Macs in the print graphics field. The majority of professional designers use them. The majority of service bureaus and film houses use them.<br><br>The problem lies in being the only people doing graphics in a building full of filers and typists. They just don't understand. My only full-time job was at a community college in the Audio Visual department, where I produced cartoons and graphics for various presentations. I often had to "spice up" (their words) presentations on the most excruciatingly dull topics. The Dean of the department complained once that he had seen me "staring off into space instead of working" (his words) as though conceptualizing was something akin to grabbing a broom and sweeping up. This was in the early 1970's before computer-aided design.<br><br>The problem really is that the IT department has no comprehension of what is involved in the graphic arts. Ignoramuses.<br><br>John<br><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by JohnLasruk on 05/26/01 11:44 AM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: I want a G4 - 05/26/01 06:31 PM

I am brash like nycdewd, I don't like PC much at all and I was told recently that PC users find it easier to learn Mac than Mac users find learning PC... I disagree but then... who am I?<br><br>My son however is the systems and networks analyst and adminstrator for a telecommunications company. He switches from Mac to PC and back with a toggle switch he is so used to working between platforms. He works all day in PC/Linux/Unix/Mac.<br>I have never seen 48 copies of Netscape running at once on the same machine till I walked into his ofice. Luckily his word is the go so he is allowed to use his choices of equipment, whichs is sort of a PC/UNIX/Mac hybrid setup. At home uses the Mac for everything the PC can't do, serves it all out to the rest of the company, gets up in the middle of the night half asleep and fixes problems back at the office, troubleshoots all the computers in the company and that means their operators too. Yes he burns Mac CD's from PC. He sits down and plays with OS X for fun as he says it is not yet ready for doing the job he now uses WIN NT for.<br><br>Even I can burn CD's on my Mac which has never seen a PC and take them and insert them in PC and they work fine. I have burnt CD's on PC (particulary graphics) and they worked fine at this end too but ... I will never scan graphics on a PC again ever. So there really is not a problem between the computer platforms, more in the attitudes of the opertators.<br><br>..
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: bye bye G4? - 05/28/01 01:14 PM

Ewan, you have my sympathies. I am a Sys Admin in a digi prepress dept (DTP) and we have 14 Macs and 2 PCs. The PCs do have the same software packages on them, and we do accept woork on them, but to tell you the truth...the Windows platform is sooo back at generating "good" postscript to the RIPs, that we upcharge 20% to ALL jobs supplied on the PC platform, regardless of what software package. Good Luck, and I feel for you man.<br><br>Michael<br><br>
Posted by: Alex

Re: bye bye G4? - 05/28/01 04:32 PM

The problem comes from the non-media, non-design types (i.e. managers) who just think, "Hey, you can get Photoshop/Freehand/Premiere/etc for Windows now, so why do these people REALLY need a Mac anymore?" - and immediately ignore anything about TCO, cross-media colour integrity, output quality/compatibility (good point ibookguy!) and just plain usability. Subjectively, media apps grew up on the Mac, they know how to get the most out of it. Even the M$ Office stuff *feels* better in Mac Edition. Objectively, it really is cheaper and more efficient to run a Mac, especially for graphics/media work, and ColorSync is "the way to go".<br><br>All that aside, you CAN live with doing it all on a wintel, but you get the drawbacks above as well as simply having to fight with Windows (insert year model here) instead of just getting on with your work. The Mac is very cross-platform by now - look at technologies like Disc Burner and DAVE for example. And if the manager still isn't sure, just curl up in a fetal position in their office murmuring, "Need my Mac... Need my Mac... Need my Mac..."<br><br>My father has been a graphic design artist and team manager for over 20 years, and was very anti-computer-of-any-kind... but the last 5 or 6 years, you couldn't keep him off his Mac. That's a reaction working on a wintel box can never give you!<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: bye bye G4? - 05/28/01 04:53 PM

further, any printshop worth its salt wants (or likely demands) to see files (your output files) that have been generated using ColorSync... also, gamma on a PC monitor is a 'hit and miss' thing, mostly MISS!<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: bye bye G4? - 06/15/01 03:34 PM

I'm an IT guy and I hate hearing these stories. It really ticks me off.<br><br>Our network is all Win2000 except for the graphic design team that uses Mac's. When i was hired some of the designers were using PC's because they had trouble sharing files with our Programmers and Production people. One of them was stalwart and using a PC and a Mac so he could trade files with one, work with the other...<br><br>Our IT team didn't want to support the Mac. I went to bat for them. Knowing the inherent advantages of Mac's for design work and knowing that anyone who claims that its difficult to integrate macs onto a PC network are full of sh*t.<br><br>I'm proud to say that because I stood up for them, all the designers now have Macs (as they wanted) and we use a couple of very simple and very affordable options to integrate them with the network and allow them to trade files with everyone else. Any IT guy who claims its too much trouble or money doesn't know anything.<br><br>The purpose of IT is to provide technology solutions to meet the needs of the company, NOT to limit technology. You tell me what you want, i make it happen in the most effecient and cost effective way. i don't dictate what you should be using to suit my conveniences or biased preferences.<br><br>This has turned into a rant i guess. I'm just trying to tell you that you can stand your ground and tell your IT people to do their job which is to provide you with solutions, not restrictions that hinder your workflow. If they don't know how to support Mac's on their network, the problem is theirs, not yours.<br><br>Maybe there are some specific trade things that are dictating this switch to PC's that I don't understand. My experience, though, is that there is always a solution to make everyone happy. it just might take some work. That, after all, is the IT dept.'s job.<br><br>Good luck.<br><br><br>
Posted by: johnengler

Re: bye bye G4? - 06/16/01 08:44 AM

damn grok, you wanna new job? I'll do everything in my power to get you hired at my company. You're the absolute first IT guy I've ever heard even come close to thinking that way....<br><br>awesome... my IT guys at my office are all about "standardization" on Windows... arghh..... though I hate using NT (cause I feel like an idiot when I hit <control+F> in Outlook and it figures that I wanted to "forward" whatever message is selected) I do agree with his logic that it's cheaper to buy me a faster Wintel Box with plenty of RAM and HD space for business type apps than to buy me a Mac.... and it is easier for him to support, just because he doesn't know Mac...<br><br>***<br>"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." <br> -- Ecclesiastes 10:2
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: bye bye G4? - 06/16/01 07:02 PM

Ditto at my school, John. The IT folks almost declared the Mac "unsupported" until lots of folks complained. Actually it's not the IT people so much as the head of IT, whose brain seems to have been fried by staring at too many Windows boxes.<br><br>And that's true too/--Shakespeare, King Lear
Posted by: johnengler

Re: bye bye G4? - 06/16/01 07:52 PM

so, what school is this? any need for a call to action? can anyone out here help?<br><br>just checking<br><br>***<br>"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." <br> -- Ecclesiastes 10:2
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: bye bye G4? - 06/16/01 11:10 PM

Thanks for the offer, but it's not necessary. We academics have a very hard time accepting that some IT person will dictate the tools we use for our work. For the first time in the history of the school, in fact, the entire faculty unified behind a petition, written by a colleague and me, to rescind the IT decision. The administration is bound to follow through with the petition.<br><br>But honestly, the misinformation and outright lies that came out of the mouth of the head of IT were just a marvel. Unfortunately for her, the two of us who wrote the petition know more about Macs and their compatibilities than she does. So we won. <br><br>And that's true too/--Shakespeare, King Lear
Posted by: johnengler

Re: bye bye G4? - 06/17/01 06:53 AM

oh, higher academia... Yes, I used to work in the Texas A&M Geology department as a student worker... it's always interesting to see the "professors" (all with doctorate degrees) act like normal people, and to see their egos get deflated every once and a while. I pitty your IT department head... I bet she learned a good lesson by trying to chalenge a bunch of professors <br><br>[disclaimer: none of the above comments were made to show complete disrespect for academics, just to shed a little humorous light on their ego's.]<br><br><br><br>***<br>"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." <br> -- Ecclesiastes 10:2
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: bye bye G4? - 06/17/01 08:23 AM

Lots of prima donnas, no doubt about that, most of it just silly.<br><br>And that's true too/--Shakespeare, King Lear
Posted by: johnengler

Re: bye bye G4? - 06/17/01 10:04 AM

I'd agree... but at the same time, the good profs I've had were very good. Guess that is true of life huh? some are good, some are bad, most are mediocre, or not focused on the right things (from other people's perceived points of view....)<br><br>***<br>"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." <br> -- Ecclesiastes 10:2
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: bye bye G4? - 06/18/01 04:48 PM

New job, eh??<br><br>Hmmmm, could be tempting. I'm dying to get out of LA.....<br><br>Seriously, though. The whole concept of IT is to provide technology solutions to the needs of business. The needs of the business come first. Unfortunately, in a world of cost/benefit analysis and value engineering the bean counters decide everybody's interest.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: johnengler

Re: bye bye G4? - 06/18/01 05:07 PM

here here grok... I agree... wish more took your attitude in a "practical" environment. theory is one thing, but putting that theory into practice is another...<br><br>***<br>"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." <br> -- Ecclesiastes 10:2