Preference pane hosed me!

Posted by: Trog

Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 11:39 AM

I installed this little preference pane as a lazy way to shut up the start up chime. It worked... it also killed my keyboard and mouse somehow. blush

I tried starting up in safe mode to dump it, but even when I get to the safe mode login I can't type. The mouse moves, but doesn't click.

Next was booting using an external firewire drive. No luck! Uh oh, this is starting to get scary if it isn't even limited to the internal startup disk. I mounted the disk from the wifi network on my laptop and I looked for the pane in both the user Library and the system Library and it isn't there. Wtf.

I reset the PRAM and the startup chime is back, but the mouse/keyboard function isn't.

I'm now down to reinstalling the system, but I'm scared even that might not work since external drive booting didn't. Fortunately, both keyboard and mouse DO work when booted from the installation DVD. Any other ideas?
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 11:57 AM

I use that app all the time and it works pretty good... although I will say every once a in while my kb loses function and I have to unplug/replug it to get functionality back. I also have the kb plugged into my display. Don't know if any of it is related to the app in question.

I looked in user library and sys library in the pref panes and the prefs folders and see no sign of it either. It's somewhere else.....
Posted by: Trog

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 12:17 PM

Well, it gets even weirder. I rebooted the machine from the regular boot drive because I was going to use the network to make certain I had everything from it backed up to my Time Machine drive. It sat there for a while while I was dicking around reading on my MBP. I come back to the desktop and everything is working!

I quickly ran the uninstaller for that preference pane. It required me to restart and when it restarted... gah! The keyboard and mouse are useless again! But, this time I sit and wait. After about 4 minutes or so it comes to life. WTF??

I've never seen anything like this. Oh, and its not even USB related. It doesn't seem to matter whether I'm using wired USB or bluetooth connected peripherals.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 12:45 PM

That's pretty odd behavior indeed. Also, the fact that it doesn't install in the expected location(s) is worrisome. Looking at the dev's site (Japanese) and the comments on the MacUpdate site, it does appear that it doesn't work on all machines.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 01:28 PM

Now that you uninstalled zap thePRAM.

That is kind of odd though. Look in the /Library/StartupItems folder for ArcanaStartupSound folder and delete it, if it's there is there anything in it? You already checked for the pref pane in /Library/PreferencePanes.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 02:09 PM

Also check System/Library/Preference Panes and User/Library/Preference Panes
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 03:17 PM

According to Pacifist the pane gets put into /Library/PreferencePanes for this one. smile
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 03:26 PM

I'd bet there's a Terminal command that accomplishes the same thing.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 03:42 PM

Yes there is, but it involves remembering a few different commands, too much work.

I prefer going to my Utilities folder and launching Pacifist. As geeky as I am, I still prefer a GUI, that's why I use a Mac. grin
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 03:45 PM

I just file Terminal commands that I'm interested in maybe using in their own folder. That way, my memory is not required to perform. laugh
Posted by: Trog

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 03:47 PM

There's nothing there in any of those places, but that's because I used the uninstaller. Zapped the PRAM again but its still happening. Timed it this restart and it took 12 minutes until the mouse/keyboard became useable. frown

I'd just reinstall the system and be done with it if I was sure that would work. But, I can't understand why booting from an external, separate drive would still have the symptoms but booting from a DVD does not?
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 03:51 PM

Is the external using the same user account? Have you tried creating a test user account to see if it happens there?
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 04:24 PM

When you first start up and the mouse doesn't work... is the laser lit up during the inactive period?
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 04:37 PM

Not working from the external is unusual too, yet it's okay from a DVD. Is it an Intel or PPC?

Set Console to open automatically at startup and see if anything interesting is repeating. What version of the OS? If you're on Leopard launch it first and view the All Messages screen then quit it, that will then open the same window when it launches. If it's Tiger, the Console log.

Can the mouse be used in the Console once it launches?

Not working Safe Mode either is odd. Maybe it did something to a setting retained on the logic board and it needs to be reset, either Open Firmware, SMC, SMU, unplug or something.
Posted by: Trog

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 04:52 PM

Nope, not the user account. Sigh, I guess I'll try a new system. I'm scared that even that isn't going to fix it.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 04:56 PM

Isn't there a method to drain the charge... unplug the machine for 1 hour or something... remove internal battery... let everything reset?


Have you tried a different kb/ mouse combo? Not the likely suspect but still worth a shot.

Edit... oh yeah, they work when booted from DVD.. forgot you sais that.

Hmmmmm


Isn't there anything you can restore from the TM back up to put it back to normal?


Posted by: Trog

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4

Isn't there anything you can restore from the TM back up to put it back to normal?

Yeah, that's a good idea. In fact, I'm loading one of last night's backups. I'm getting pretty worried though, because of the fact that a separate system (firewire drive) still has the problem. It just makes it seem like it isn't anything to do with the operating system. I thought for sure the PRAM zap would work, but I've zapped and zapped.

Maybe I should just turn it off and unplug it for a while, I don't know. Please don't tell me to put it in the freezer and hit it gently with a hammer. frown
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 08:14 PM

There was a time back in Panther (I think) when booting up led to a dead mouse and keyboard. I had to unplug and replug the USB connection several times to get the peripherals recognized. Does unplugging and replugging the USB do anything?
Posted by: Trog

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/24/10 10:33 PM

Unfortunately not. I can plug the mouse into any of the USB ports and it makes no difference. I also have a magic mouse that connects by bluetooth and it has the same behavior.

I left the machine off and unplugged for about 3 hours and when I started up this time there was about 10 seconds where the blue screen and the desktop picture blended together. Mouse and keyboard still dead.

I'm beginning to wonder if the preference pane was just coincidence and my poor Mac Pro has a dying circuit board or something.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 04:57 AM

Warranty?
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 05:11 AM

I was thinking hardware too but it works okay booted off of the DVD? Double check that, if it does I really doubt it's hardware.

Try this too. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964?viewlocale=en_US

Or this. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1509
Posted by: Trog

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 08:08 AM

Thanks for all the help and ideas, guys. No, there's no warranty - this is the original Woodcrest Mac Pro from 2006.

Fortunately, the hardware seems fine via the Apple hardware test on the DVD. An SMC reset didn't have any effect.

Yes, it definitely behaves normally when booted from the install DVD; that was what I used to have Time Machine restore from a previous date. So yeah, not hardware I guess, but not system software either. Some other strange clues:

1. Upon starting up, the cursor is in the upper left corner and unresponsive. The keyboard is also unresponsive. If I put the machine to sleep the keyboard spacebar will wake it up. After waking up the machine the mouse moves around but doesn't appear to click anything. The keyboard is still unresponsive.

2. When the mouse and keyboard become active after 10 minutes or so, it appears in the middle of the screen and there is an image of the cursor still up in the upper left of the screen. Isn't that odd?

3. Also, when it becomes responsive, tasks that I attempted to perform (e.g. command-N, etc.) appear immediately. Its as if everything is queued up.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 08:09 AM

Maybe a nuke and repave?
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 09:25 AM

Try what I suggested with the Console to see if it's throwing any errors up, or maybe you can see what task it's hanging on.

From what you said about completing the tasks you clicked on once it responds, it's just not responding till it gets done doing what it's trying to do, and maybe what comes up in Console will give as clue as to what it's doing. At that point it's loading fonts or running startup items.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 09:57 AM

Make sure nothing is in the Start up menu/preferences. Mebbe an app that launches on start up is hanging it up?
Those apps wouldn't start up when booted from the DVD.

Yeah.. that's it... that's the ticket. laugh
Posted by: Trog

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 10:39 AM

Oh its getting close!

Nucleus I think it might be something that simple. Reboot, I missed your post about the console somehow.

Testing ensues.
Posted by: Trog

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 11:33 AM

Console was a great idea. Opening it up and looking at all messages looks like this:


Code:
4/25/10 10:46:23 AM	warmd[48]	[fetcher_open_file:936] open("/var/db/dyld/dyld_shared_cache_x86_64") => -1 (errno: 2)
4/25/10 10:46:23 AM	warmd[48]	[fetcher_open_file:936] open("/var/db/dyld/dyld_shared_cache_i386") => -1 (errno: 2)
4/25/10 10:46:23 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:46:23 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:46:23 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:46:23 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:46:23 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:46:23 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.

4/25/10 10:49:57 AM	/usr/libexec/hidd[60]	Timeout waiting for IOKit to be quiet 
4/25/10 10:51:19 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:51:19 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:51:19 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:51:19 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:51:19 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:51:19 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:51:19 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:51:19 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:51:19 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:51:19 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.

4/25/10 10:52:02 AM	sandboxd[172]	krb5kdc(46) deny mach-lookup com.apple.CoreServices.coreservicesd
4/25/10 10:53:35 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:53:35 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:53:35 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:53:35 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:53:35 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:53:35 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:53:35 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.

4/25/10 10:53:38 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:53:38 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:53:38 AM	kernel	IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
4/25/10 10:53:57 AM	WindowServer[80]	Timeout waiting for IOKit to be quiet 
4/25/10 10:54:55 AM	SystemStarter[50]	IOKitWaitQuiet: -536870186


I cut out about 200 lines of "kernel IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow". It was repeated over and over and is apparently the thing getting "stuck".

I just started randomly pasting these error messages into google and one of the links was to this thread.
About halfway down the page someone writes:
Quote:
BUT I had almost forgot that when I first installed Zephyroth it took 5-6 minutes to start up...I belive this happens beause some kind of interrupt is missing.

The solution?Just plug in something that creates an interrupt, a wifi usb dongle, an ethernet cable, an external disk

I restarted the computer and I had added the console to login items. As the "kernel IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow" started to come up I hit the power to one of my USB external drives. Boom! The mouse immediately started working.

Getting closer to what the problem is. Maybe.
Posted by: Trog

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 12:05 PM

Wow, can I just delete this whole thread and save the embarrassment? blush

The problem was one peripheral device. /facepalm (see avatar)

I had recently bought one of these and was using it this week plugged into a firewire port. I removed one of my older USB externals and transferred the files to this one.

But, I didn't realize that when I moved this into its place on the desk I swapped its connection from firewire to USB. While troubleshooting this problem, each time I went to make sure peripherals were unplugged I was checking the firewire ports and thinking the USB connection was just keyboard and mouse.

Ugh... so, the Macally enclosure's USB connection causes my computer to puke, and I just ordered another one on Friday cause I thought they were so cute for the price. Hahaha.

Anyway, thank you all so very much for the continued suggestions!
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 05:32 PM

LOL... lesson learned.
When the computer acts funky, remove all peripherals, then all 3rd party ram till it is back to factory spec and see if problem persists.

I'm surprised you weren't getting kernel panics.

Glad you figured it out.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 05:45 PM

I'll add another congrats. Something to keep in mind if/when I get a similar problem.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/25/10 05:47 PM

I can move it for you but I don't like to delete. grin

Glad you got it figured out. cool
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/26/10 03:54 AM

So... are you going to put the pref pane back in now.. or are you totally spooked??
Posted by: Trog

Re: Preference pane hosed me! - 04/26/10 10:18 AM

Hahaha. I thought about that too. I'm not really spooked about it, but I don't really need it now.

For some reason the startup chime was outrageously loud before. But after all the PRAM zapping, the PMU resetting, the cache clearing, etc., it isn't loud anymore. grin