Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty

Posted by: KateSorensen

Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/21/09 10:26 AM


Wow! I use to smoke. Interesting

Quote:
'The Apple store called and informed me that due to the computer having been used in a house where there was smoking, [the warranty has been voided] and they refuse to work on the machine "due to health risks of second hand smoke,"' wrote one customer. Another said, 'When I asked for an explanation, she said [the owner of the iMac is] a smoker and it's contaminated with cigarette smoke, which they consider a bio-hazard!


rest of story

One reader's comment:

Does putting it in the dishwasher void the warranty?

Only if there's ashtrays in the dishwasher.

smile

.
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/21/09 11:07 AM

Sounds like a joke laugh

You would have to place the ashtray right under the intake vent to get enough tar inside to be noticeable
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/21/09 11:57 AM

Not true. My wife's iMac-350 was full of the crap simply because she smoked constantly near it - not to mention the ceiling fans, light fixtures, AC filter, etc.
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/21/09 12:39 PM

How long was she smoking next to it , I bet years right .

Jaz smokes and the ashtray is right next to iMac 24 , we brought it in for a HD replacement and Apple said nothing and honored the warranty <-- keep in mind that was like 11 months after we bought it , so I would think it would take years for it to build up to be noticeable , well depends how heavy is the smoker ?

I am not to sure about this OSHA thing ?

1 - I never read anything about that subject , we are big OSHA readers in my industry . Then I could also have missed that subject altogether but I doubt that happening ?

Consider a smokers home over a long period of time , the walls and ceilings would be stained with tar <-- Believe me if OSHA felt that it was a hazard I certainly would know about it and what protective gear my teams would need to have on site .
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/21/09 02:37 PM

Me? I always smoke after texting.

Posted by: Antonio

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/21/09 07:52 PM

Yes. This is why, while my housemate, friends and I do smoke occasionally, it is ALWAYS outside. I enjoy it a bit, but who wants their house and furniture to smell like it?
Posted by: padmavyuha

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/22/09 12:57 AM

Or their people? wink
Posted by: Antonio

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/22/09 02:12 PM

We can wash our skin and brush our teeth :P
Posted by: padmavyuha

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/22/09 02:29 PM

...and hair, and clothes... :P
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/22/09 05:01 PM

So you look like clean Pot Heads laugh
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/22/09 06:46 PM

carp, smoking ruins a computer. I was the only smoker in our house. When I quit, I decided to tear my iMac apart for a thorough cleaning, since I had repainted the ceilings and walls, etc.

This is what it looked like:
























This is after a lot of work cleaning it out. Yes, reboot, I used a CRT discharge tool wink
If you smoke, it's best to do it outdoors.





Posted by: Antonio

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 09:22 AM

It's hard to believe that's from smoking alone, even chain smoking.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 10:38 AM

My wife's looked like that too. It's the electrical charge that causes it to "stick" to all of the parts.
Posted by: padmavyuha

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 10:55 AM

Luckily for the health of the macs, some of that stuff never makes it out of the smokers.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 11:13 AM

The cigarette residue that was inside of my old iMac was hard to clean off. I'm happy that no one has ever smoked around my 2006 Mac Pro. When I took it apart recently to add RAM, it was a little dusty, but the dust blew off easily with canned air.

I was the only smoker in the house and didn't chain smoke, so I was shocked to see how bad the insides of that iMac looked! Also, I only used it evenings and weekends because I work full time. Kept the outside of it clean, as well as the desk area. Vacuumed the air vents and desk area regularly. I imagine that a heavy smoker's Mac would look even worse.

Can't blame a tech for not wanting to deal with it.
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 11:15 AM

Quote:
carp, smoking ruins a computer.


I never said it didn't
I was saying build up like would take a year or longer , unless the ashtray is next to the air intake vent sorta acted like one of those Ionizers laugh

The larger question is OSHA calling it a Hazard ? ? I'll do a google on OSHA site later
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 11:48 AM


Below part of the story at: this link - PC World

Quote:
Now, I am as much against smoking as anyone. I also do not want workers needlessly exposed to hazardous substances. Still, for Apple to deny warranty claims on Macs exposed to cigarette smoke seems way over the line.

Yet, that is what The Consumerist says Apple has done on at least two occasions in recent months.

Apple is apparently telling at least some customers that the amount of cigarette smoke residue inside their computers makes it unsafe for the company to perform warranty service on them, despite the lack of such a clause in the company's warranty agreement.

The Consumerist says the complaint as been raised as far as Steve Jobs' office, with no relief for the customers involved.

The story was reported on Friday, though the Consumerist said it had sought, but failed to receive, any explanation from Apple HQ over a period of months. (The site is part of the Consumers Union/Consumer Reports organization, so I deem the report credible).


And this from Business Insider web site.

Quote:
People are complaining that Apple refused to repair their under-warranty computers because they were "contaminated" by cigarette smoke.

Consumerists notes two particular cases where Apple customers seeking warranty services on their laptops and computers were turned away.

One customer with a $3000 iMac was denied services eventually emailed CEO Steve Jobs to complain.

Eventually a woman from Steve's office named Dena called the customer "to deliver the bad news."

She said that the computer is beyond economical repair due to tar from cigarette smoke! She said the
hard drive is about to fail, the optical drive has failed and it isn't feasible to repair the computer under the warranty. This computer is less than 2 years old! Only one person in my household smokes - one 21 year old college student. She said that I can get it repaired elsewhere at my expense.

Ah. The good ol' hard-drive-is-full-of-tar excuse.


As more more people join in the discussion, maybe Apple will officially give a response.

Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 12:03 PM

Link to OSHA interpretations

Quote:
Because the organic material in tobacco doesn't burn completely, cigarette smoke contains more than 4,700 chemical compounds. Although OSHA has no regulation that addresses tobacco smoke as a whole


Talks more about air born smoke

As I thought it is more Apple and not an OSHA ruling .

Anyway if Apple is gonna pull the cat out of the bag - it has to make it clear that smokers will not get any type of warranty service at all , before they make that purchase . Simply if I bought a 3,000 Mac and (Apple Pro Care) on top of that __> I would be pissed
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 12:05 PM

I wonder if maybe it's the techs who are refusing to work on one that is really nasty when they open it up.
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 12:14 PM

Originally Posted By: MacBozo
I wonder if maybe it's the techs who are refusing to work on one that is really nasty when they open it up.


Possible , that they don't wanna get their hands dirty , more so a non smoker might even wanna puke laugh They proberly raised the red flag to begin with then Apple noticed ?

Sooooooo
Should Apple pay for repairs caused by a smoker ?
Should Apple pay for cleaning your tar incased machine ?

Bottom line ; As mentioned if Apple is going to pull this , they have to be upfront before you buy a Mac and more so before you buy extended care.

Now since I have Pro Care on Jaz iMac 24 , I feel like I was ripped off .
Posted by: Antonio

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 12:22 PM

That makes sense. If there's that much buildup inside the machine, there could quite possibly be issues related to it. One must also think that such a builup makes the machine difficult to work on.
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 12:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Antonio
That makes sense. If there's that much buildup inside the machine, there could quite possibly be issues related to it. One must also think that such a builup makes the machine difficult to work on.


It makes it difficult to work on for sure and you have to spend time to clean it , so there is a money issue as well -- However there is NO Hazard for the tech , unless he/she cleans it with their lips .
Posted by: trey

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 05:24 PM

My first iMac lived the first few years of it's life in a couple of VERY smoky apartments. It was the graphite DVSE one. in about 2003 or 4, I got my hands on one that hadn't been around smoke. The difference was astonishing. You could barely see through the casing of the first one! I had never noticed since the change was so gradual.

But you know what? It worked just fine, and even after being drenched with water during Katrina, it ran for like another two or three years. So, while the smoke definitely isn't good for it, I don't know that it was really all that bad.

I don't smoke anymore. Mostly.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/23/09 05:34 PM

My graphite DVSE (the one in those pictures) also still lives. Although, it does get a little wonky sometimes. That's why it's in the basement now, being saved as a spare. Not reliable enough anymore. frown
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 06:51 AM

Originally Posted By: carp

However there is NO Hazard for the tech , unless he/she cleans it with their lips .


That's quite the bold statement there. I wouldn't ever claim anything is not hazardous, especially situations like this.

What happens if the technician is allergic to cig. smoke or a chemical in the smoke?
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 08:15 AM

Originally Posted By: dreed2
This is what it looked like:



That's not horrible. You should see what the insides of a computer look like in a corrugated paper plant after just a week. Puts that to shame.
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 10:31 AM

Originally Posted By: John Rougeux
Originally Posted By: carp

However there is NO Hazard for the tech , unless he/she cleans it with their lips .


That's quite the bold statement there. I wouldn't ever claim anything is not hazardous, especially situations like this.

What happens if the technician is allergic to cig. smoke or a chemical in the smoke?


What if the person is allergic to plastic ? or electricity or copper or , we can go on for ever . If it was hazardous OSHA and EPA would have flagged it . We do know it is certainly not good for ya so don't lick it and wash your hands like your supposed to do
Posted by: trey

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 11:00 AM

Quote:
What if the person is allergic to plastic ? or electricity or copper or , we can go on for ever . If it was hazardous OSHA and EPA would have flagged it . We do know it is certainly not good for ya so don't lick it and wash your hands like your supposed to do


But you can't make a computer that doesn't contain copper, plastic and electricity. You CAN make one that doesn't have cigarette smoke in it.

I'm not saying Apple are correct in this, but I can see a valid argument for there being limitations against the conditions under which the warranty can apply. And this hasn't got anything to do with OSHA, it was a decision by apple.

Most people aren't allergic to water, but I'd guess that if you tried to take a soaking-wet computer in for service, you probably wouldn't get too far.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 11:14 AM

I wouldn't totally depend on OSHA and/or EPA to label all things correctly and quickly.

But again, like I said before, I wouldn't be so quick to label 2nd hand smoke residue as NOT hazardous, like you did.
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 12:08 PM

Originally Posted By: John Rougeux
I wouldn't totally depend on OSHA and/or EPA to label all things correctly and quickly.

But again, like I said before, I wouldn't be so quick to label 2nd hand smoke residue as NOT hazardous, like you did.


Because it is NOT hazardous unless you lick it , thats like saying BBQ smoke residue is Hazardous

Here the definition that I think fits the best .

Quote:
Hazard
For other uses of Hazard, see Hazard (disambiguation).
A hazard is a situation that poses a level of threat to life, health, property, or environment. Most hazards are dormant or potential, with only a theoretical risk of harm; however, once a hazard becomes 'active', it can create an emergency situation. A hazard does not exist when it is happening. A hazardous situation that has come to pass is called an incident. Hazard and vulnerability interact together to create risk.


H3ll even water is a hazard , you can call almost everything is a hazard , sidewalks , dogs , cats , even people are walking hazards

But in this sense Hazard would mean that you need to use protective clothing , gloves , respirator , eye protection ,, use of special chemicals , use of special disposal containers that are clearly marked .
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 12:16 PM

Right

Quote:
Most people aren't allergic to water, but I'd guess that if you tried to take a soaking-wet computer in for service, you probably wouldn't get too far.


The thing is that is stated in Apples warranty agreements - cigarette smoke is not , so if Apple is going to pull this one , it has to be upfront about it before you make the purchase .
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 03:33 PM


Might have found something Carp. Thanks Neil MacTech news.

<-- click

Went to the site OSHA's hazardous substance list.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/toc/toc_chemsamp.html

Clicked on letter "N"

Clicked on Nicotine

http://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_256500.html

So, OSHA does say it is a hazardous substance and gives the PEL for several industries. While not mentioning computer repairing per se, I think it looks like Apple may have a leg to stand on.

What do you think?

Kate



Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 04:40 PM

Means absolutely nothing - Kate

Read the measures

Like I mentioned above when OSHA and EPA issues a Hazard waring requiring ((Protective)) gear to be worn . Those links means very little at all , except for some engineers .
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 05:36 PM


Well Rats! I'll keep an eye open for something to come down the road! smile

Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By: KateSorensen

Well Rats! I'll keep an eye open for something to come down the road! smile



Keep an eye out for someone smoking down the road - You may get a whiff of smoke and get an allergic reaction and die laugh Thats how stupid this thing is
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 05:49 PM


Well, one Apple store so far refusing to work on a smokey machine. It is getting publicized enough now I'm thinking we'll probably hear more about it in weeks/months to come.

Smoking was such a great thing and I enjoyed it for so many years. Unfortunately, there remains the piper to pay. frown

Someone invent sweet smelling cigs with no nicotine! Asparagus cigarettes!
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 05:57 PM

Well like I said above , I had no problems with my iMac taking it into for warranty service from Apple , and it had to have some smoke residue from Jaz room.

Then again like with Donnas iMac looks like that was from years of cumulation

Bottom line;

If Apple did NOT tell consumers that smoking will cancel their warranty before they bought the Mac - Apple has NO legal leg to stand on by any stretch of the imagination
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 06:06 PM

carp, dropping a Mac onto the floor, getting it wet, spilling a beer or martini into it, or even exposing it to cigarette smoke can easily void a warranty. Warranties are meant to cover manufacturing defects, not to cover abuse.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 08:26 PM

Good point Donna.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/24/09 09:26 PM

I've seen 2 machines in worse condition than Donna's. My co-worker's 17"iMac that turned completely yellow-amber, and my uncle's old Dell PC.

I'm guessing that smoking attacks the fans. Once they stop or slow tons of stuff can go wrong due to excess heat.
Posted by: padmavyuha

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/25/09 12:09 AM

I reckon anything that can coat the internal components (and is at all conductive) is also capable of leading to unwarrantable damage because it could induce shorts (not the edible kind).
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/25/09 04:34 AM

Originally Posted By: carp
Means absolutely nothing - Kate

Read the measures

Like I mentioned above when OSHA and EPA issues a Hazard waring requiring ((Protective)) gear to be worn . Those links means very little at all , except for some engineers .


Means absolutely nothing? I guess I clicked on a different link:
Quote:

Exposure Limits
OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) for General Industry: 29 CFR 1910.1000 Z-1 Table -- 0.5 mg/m3 TWA (Skin)

OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) for Construction Industry: 29 CFR 1926.55 Appendix A -- 0.5 mg/m3 TWA; Skin

OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) for Maritime: 29 CFR 1915.1000 Table Z-Shipyards -- 0.5 mg/m3 TWA; Skin

American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) Threshold Limit Value (TLV): 0.5 mg/m3 TWA; Skin

National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) Recommended Exposure Limit (REL): 0.5 mg/m3 TWA; Skin

Health Factors
NIOSH Immediately Dangerous To Life or Health Concentration (IDLH): 5 mg/m3

Potential symptoms: Nausea, salivation, abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea; headache, dizziness, hearing, visual disturbance; confusion, lassitude (weakness, exhaustion), incoordination; cardiac arrhythmias; convulsions, dyspnea (breathing difficulty); in animals: teratogenic effects

Health Effects: Acute systemic toxicity (HE4); CNS damage (HE7) Suspect teratogen (HE5)

Affected organs: central nervous system, cardiovascular system, lungs, gastrointestinal tract, reproductive system


Sounds like something.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/25/09 04:57 AM

Sounds like something.

Meh... it's nothing... I asked Carp.

Actually, for me, it is nothing. I just quit smoking after 30 years.
Well... I quit last year also. Maybe it will take this time.

Anyways... my doctor took X-Rays of my lungs and now refuses to work on me.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/25/09 05:42 AM

It is nothing for me too since I quit 9 years ago. Good luck!
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/25/09 11:08 AM

Originally Posted By: padmavyuha
I reckon anything that can coat the internal components (and is at all conductive) is also capable of leading to unwarrantable damage because it could induce shorts (not the edible kind).


Thats very true

I would think household lint / dust is more of a problem , since it is ever present . I mean you don't smoke every second of the day , them fans will suck lint and dust even when your not smoking . Office buildings the A/C somewhat filters the air and you cannot smoke so thats a much better condition then home air
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/25/09 11:13 AM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
Sounds like something.

Meh... it's nothing... I asked Carp.

Actually, for me, it is nothing. I just quit smoking after 30 years.
Well... I quit last year also. Maybe it will take this time.

Anyways... my doctor took X-Rays of my lungs and now refuses to work on me.


So you lost your lung warranty laugh
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/29/09 03:26 PM

Originally Posted By: KateSorensen

Someone invent sweet smelling cigs with no nicotine! Asparagus cigarettes!


Don't know about Asparagus, but there are these.
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 11/29/09 05:09 PM

Originally Posted By: SgtBaxter
Originally Posted By: KateSorensen

Someone invent sweet smelling cigs with no nicotine! Asparagus cigarettes!


Don't know about Asparagus, but there are these.


Those are a mixed blessing so to speak

1 - Allows you to smoke in no smoking zones , like restaurants
2 - Some people say they quit ? ? I question that

There was cigs in the 80s that were Sweet Smelling , I tried some myself . In general they were herbs rolled up , sorta like smoking incense and very harsh even when filtered . Certainly don't taste like how it smells
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 12/01/09 05:11 AM

I think those were clove cigarettes?
Posted by: Antonio

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 12/01/09 08:56 AM

Sounds like 'em.
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 12/01/09 11:27 AM

I think your right , just tried one
Posted by: Antonio

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 12/01/09 11:39 AM

They're pretty tasty. I like one on occasion. But, then, I'm really not a big smoker, anyhow. I just like one now and then.
Posted by: carp

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 12/01/09 11:57 AM

I didn't care for it .

My daughter has that electronic one , she don't used that anymore either
Posted by: Silver_Moon

Re: Smoking - Your Macintosh - Repairs - Warranty - 12/01/09 05:46 PM

All this makes me think of this Joy of Tech comic!