Office '08

Posted by: Jashue

Office '08 - 01/23/08 07:48 PM

Anyone here have any experience with it yet? <br><br>I was goofing around with Word for a bit today, and I have to say that I like the feel of it. I can't give any better feedback than that at this early juncture (it's only been a few hours), but so far, so good.<br><br>There is one thing though, that I'd like to address: Upon completing my first document, I discovered that I wasn't able to print it because my Cannon inkjet was out of an ink cartridge (imagine that: an inkjet printer out of ink?). So I emailed the document to my father who just happened to have received an all-in-one laser/copier/scanner as a gift from me this past Christmas, and I was excited to see how it did.<br><br>Well lo and behold-- the document was saved by default in the Office Open XML format (.docx) rather than the .doc format that we have all become used to ever since file extensions became normal on Macs. This format could not be opened on my father's machine which was loaded with what was the latest version of Office only a week ago.<br><br>No problem. I just saved my document ("Save as") in the old format and resent it.<br><br>The thing is... one would think that there would be better backwards compatibility, right? Not everyone is going to run out and get Office right away, and there will most definitely be problems, I think. How many here were already familiar with this issue? Is this old news? I'm pretty shocked that I discovered it the way I did.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Office '08 - 01/23/08 08:11 PM

The Windows version of Office '07 does the same thing. It's a real pain for those who have older versions and can't open the files. Microsoft has a beta reader available for download on their site, but it's really a pain that they did this. Grrrrr. For a company to upgrade costs big bucks and is only going to further drive more people into using open source, IMO. Big mistake on Microsoft's part. <br><br>
Posted by: ScoutX

Re: Office '08 - 01/23/08 08:19 PM

Early last year, we interviewed a PhD candidate for a job. He proudly brought a Power Point presentation to show us as part of his interview. The problem is, he was an early adopter of Office 2007. At our place we were not permitted to move to Office 2007 yet (still are not), so he could not show his presentation. Very embarrassing!!<br><br>I've been bitten by the incompatibility already. Late last year, one of my scouts sent an Eagle project workbook for review that he had saved by default in .docx format. I think his family had just bought a new PC. I explained to him that few people and almost no businesses had adopted Office 2007 at that time, and that on the Mac, Office 2008 was not expected for months. I requested that he save his workbook in .doc format and resend. He did that and everything was fine. Since then, Microsoft has posted some docx file converters.<br><br>I haven't decided my course of action yet. At work, I receive spreadsheets containing sorting macros several times a week. Failing to provide VBA support in Office 2008 for Mac is one of the most dunderheaded moves I've seen out of Microsoft for a long time. Either that, or a stroke of genius for killing off Office on the Mac. So, I may get Office 2008 for new format compatibility and format conversion, and keep Office 2004 to open macro enabled documents, or I may just get Office 2007 to use under XP on Parallels, or I may get Neo-Office. I hear that the volunteers who develop Neo-Office have been able to do what Microsoft could (or would) not, and provide new format compatibility, and macro capability.<br><br>If I didn't receive so many Office documents at home, and require cross platform compatibility (such as it is now) at work, I'd chuck Office. As I say, I haven't decided what avenue to take yet.<br><br>/vent<br><br>Who serves his fellows, is of his fellows greatest - Chingachgook (by legend) <br><br>Scout
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Office '08 - 01/23/08 08:23 PM

This maybe?<br><br>http://versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/32498<br><br>------> JD's Trivia game<br><br>------> MCF-MM Trivia game
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Office '08 - 01/23/08 08:40 PM

If you ever run into a problem like what ScoutX reports, please keep in mind that you can always use this site to convert the document to whatever format you want. It's really convenient for emergencies.<br><br>&#63743; &#63743; &#63743; &#63743;
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Office '08 - 01/23/08 11:42 PM

Isn't it funny that Apple's Pages program can open the new format, but MS's own (though older) software can't. You would THINK they would make some kind of plug-in you could install into older versions of Office to allow them to read the new files.<br><br>
Posted by: Mactico

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 03:37 AM

Open very slow all the apps, also open a file is extremely slow, I went back to <br>Office 2004.<br><br>Mac Mini.<br><br><br>
Posted by: Piper_14

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 03:59 AM

I've been trying out Word/Excel 2008 myself-- and it's true that the first time I launched each app, it took a long time, very slow, but as I saw on the splashscreen, the apps were "optimising" the font menus and other preferences. Sencond time I lauched, it was MUCH quicker. But yeah, IMHO, I haven't noticed much of a speed boost so far from the new version versus the older 2004 version running in Rosetta...<br><br>The new interface also need a little getting used to, and I don't know if it's a bad thing to say this here, but I somehow find the overall look a little too much Apple/Mac look and feel-like. I mean, this is a Microsoft app, after all! Just the app's preferences... I mean, ok, wow.<br><br>I've still kept Office 2004 for now... I'll see if Office 2008 grows on me or not. <br><br><br><br>My Wii: 5721 8516 7937 9434 (PM me if you Wii)
Posted by: Piper_14

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 04:04 AM

BTW, you can easily set up in the Word 2008 preferences what default filetype you want your documents saved, that is, either the new (uncompatible with prior versions) Open XML-based ".docx" or the good-old, more compatible ".doc" format. It's in the Preferences--> "Save" pref pane.<br><br><br>My Wii: 5721 8516 7937 9434 (PM me if you Wii)
Posted by: Jashue

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 08:35 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>you can easily set up in the Word 2008 preferences...the good-old, more compatible ".doc" format.<p><hr></blockquote><p>I might do that. But what am I missing? MicroSoft must have had a reason for switching, right? IÕm not going to loose any sleep over it, but it does make me wonder.<br><br>You mention how ÒMac-LikeÓ the new Word is. You are so right- itÕs scary. IÕve never had a M$ program that behavied with such feel. IÕm really kind of psyched-- since I canÕt seem to break away from Office.<br><br>There are very few practical reasons why I shouldnÕt be able to use Pages. IÕve toyed with it here and there and I like the simplicity of it. ItÕs just that as a long time Mac user (and having been ÒpersecutedÓ for being such in a PC world), IÕve always been able to rub MS Office in the face of those who are inclined to tell me to get a ÒrealÓ computer--- anyone remember those days? It would feel good to make the leap to Pages, but something is holding me back.<br><br>Anyone here use Pages as a default word processsor? Is there any reason why one might not?<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 08:56 AM

The problem is that most users have no clue about how to set default file type preferences. I tell my students that they can, and for the sake of compatibility should do that . . . and they say "What?" <br><br>&#63743; &#63743; &#63743; &#63743;
Posted by: globalrolf

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 12:15 PM

I don't remember what website I was referred to (not the one you link to, anyway) when I was messing with a .docx file but I never got an email from them with the converted data. So I tried MacLink and it gave it to me as several folders worth of stuff, none of which seemed to have the core data I wanted. So I tried the next best thing, had them save it as a .doc document and send it to me and I used that. Sure seems like a stupid move for Microsoft, but then obsoleting software to pad their bottom line with new sales is not a new concept. <br><br>GBR (OFI)
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 02:12 PM

I've used Zamzar many times . . . it works.<br><br>&#63743; &#63743; &#63743; &#63743;
Posted by: Trog

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 02:34 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Anyone here use Pages as a default word processsor?<p><hr></blockquote><p>I do.<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Is there any reason why one might not?<p><hr></blockquote><p>I suppose if you are constantly collaborating with someone who uses different software it might be a pain. The really complicated layouts made by Pages don't always translate well to Word. Then again, when I make a complicated layout in Pages I don't want other people opening it up in Word, so I export as pdf anyway.<br><br>By the way, am I the only one that sees your post with these weird symbols in it? Did you write that post with MS Office or something?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p><p><hr></blockquote><p>
Posted by: Piper_14

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 02:51 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>By the way, am I the only one that sees your post with these weird symbols in it? <p><hr></blockquote><p>Oh, good. So it's not just my computer!<br><br><br>My Wii: 5721 8516 7937 9434 (PM me if you Wii)
Posted by: padmavyuha

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 03:12 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>MicroSoft must have had a reason for switching, right?<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Under pressure to conform to the perfectly good and rapidly-becoming-world-favourite ODF (Open Document Format) protocol, as used in OpenOffice, NeoOffice, and a growing list of other apps worldwide, MS decided to try to get away with coining their own incompatible version of it, in order to look as if they were complying, but still maintain a monopoly on Office users. Beh.<br><br>- padmavyuha<br><br>[color:purple]A lopsided man runs best along the little side-hills of success<br>- Frank Moore Colby</font color=purple>
Posted by: Jashue

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 03:18 PM

Now that's very strange! I see the symbols of which you speak in oyur quote of my post, but not in my origional post. And yes, I did compose the original post in Word '08! I don't typically do that, but I just happened to have it open at the time.<br><br>Why do you think that happened? FWIW-- my default font in Word is Palatino-- but the strange symbols that replaced the punctuation in my post do not correspond with the keystrokes that should result them in Word. That's too weird. Sorry about that, but thanks for the reply! <br><br>
Posted by: Jashue

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 03:29 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Under pressure to conform to the perfectly good and rapidly-becoming-world-favourite ODF (Open Document Format) protocol, as used in OpenOffice, NeoOffice, and a growing list of other apps worldwide, MS decided to try to get away with coining their own incompatible version of it, in order to look as if they were complying, but still maintain a monopoly on Office users. Beh.<p><hr></blockquote><p>That's totally messed up. I wish I could say that I was surprised though. This new "universal" format could be as much of a threat to Microsoft by hitting the Office suite as Linux and Mac are to Windows. I know a lot of people that eschew Windows in favor of other OSs, but I don't know anyone that doesn't use Office.<br><br>Microsoft's reign is definitely on the decline it seems, on a number of fronts. I almost feel sorry for them. <br><br>Almost.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 03:30 PM

I don't know. I remember seeing things like that in some of MacGizmo's posts, and he had an explanation for it, but I don't remember what it was.<br><br>
Posted by: Piper_14

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 04:04 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I almost feel sorry for them. <br><br>Almost.<br><p><hr></blockquote><p>Not me. Not even almost. <br><br><br><br><br>My Wii: 5721 8516 7937 9434 (PM me if you Wii)
Posted by: Jashue

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 05:10 PM

Neat avatar, Piper.<br><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 05:13 PM

HA HA HA HA backwards compatability .... MicroShaft <br><br>HA HA HA HA ... MicroShaft ... backwards compatability <br><br>HA HA HA HA... that's a Killer !! <br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: DLC

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 05:18 PM

"MicroSoft must have had a reason for switching, right?"<br><br>They DID... $$$$$ !<br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 05:44 PM

No kidding... I like that avatar too! I have several atom/nucleus avatars/gifs. Is that one you did?<br><br>
Posted by: Piper_14

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 05:57 PM

Actually, my avatar comes from an upcoming Wii videogame... <br><br><br>[color:purple]Source link....</font color=purple><br><br><br>My Wii: 5721 8516 7937 9434 (PM me if you Wii)
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 06:14 PM

I believe it's the text encoding.<br><br>
Posted by: FSM

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 06:46 PM

i have Pages, but i still consider it more of a hobby than an actual workflow application.<br><br>that being said, all of my undergrads are using the same word processor this semester and it's not Word. i forced them all to get a Google account and send me all documents using Google's Docs. it's working out just swell. <br><br>i haven't tried opening docx files with Docs, but it opens and saves .doc just fine. and we're saving a lot of paper. <br><br>
Posted by: FSM

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 06:52 PM

not sure if this is posted here, but here is a update for Mac Office 2004 to open docx files (and other Office 2008 formats): http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.mspx<br><br>i am thinking of giving Office 2008 a test run right now. keep your fingers crossed for me. <br><br>EDIT: where do i find a 30 day demo (or whatever they offer for a demo)? i tried Mactopia (Microsoft's Mac pages) and i don't see a way to download without buying. <br><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by FSM on 01/24/08 09:58 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: ScoutX

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 08:44 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The problem is that most users have no clue about how to set default file type preferences. I tell my students that they can, and for the sake of compatibility should do that . . . and they say "What?"<p><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah, but ... your students are in some esoteric subject - escatological linguistics - or something like that, right? Who could blame them for not knowing a Qubit from a cubit? <br><br>Who serves his fellows, is of his fellows greatest - Chingachgook (by legend) <br><br>Scout
Posted by: FSM

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 09:01 PM

i survey my students every semester. this is a question i asked that's semi related:<br><br><br><br>pretty sad isn't it?<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 09:15 PM

<br><br>Not so esoteric as that, but close edit: come to think of it, I have taught a course called Visions of the End, and now that I'm almost finished reading Cormac McCarthy's The Road, I want to teach it again, with that book right at the center of the course. What a fabulously well written novel that is!<br><br>&#63743; &#63743; &#63743; &#63743; <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by yoyo52 on 01/25/08 00:16 AM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: Jashue

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 09:32 PM

Off topic--<br><br>I know what RTF (rich text format, right?) is as I have seen it as an option when opening a document by a program for which is is not native. I also know that it is an option as a "save as..." command.<br><br>But beyond that, I have know idea what it is and don't know why someone would opt for that format when .doc is universal.<br><br>Er... well... umm... it was universal until M$ decided that the latest versions of Office saved docs in a format other than .doc<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 10:06 PM

The MS .doc format is proprietary, I thought.<br><br>&#63743; &#63743; &#63743; &#63743;
Posted by: Jashue

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 10:19 PM

I was being sort of half-sarcastic. <br><br>Truth is-- I knew that it was proprietary, and I knew that it was so widely used that it practically was universal.<br><br>But when other applications were written that allowed documents to be saved in .doc format I got a little confused about the issue.<br><br>I guess I just never paid too much attention-- not being the geek that I have become for must of the past ten years (and not nearly the geek that many here are!)<br><br>
Posted by: FSM

Re: Office '08 - 01/24/08 10:27 PM

before switching to Google Docs i used to have many students who used Microsoft Works (not Word). when they saved files, they were not .doc files and i had all sorts of trouble opening on my Mac -- this stretches back 8 years even. so, i just told my students i'd only accept RTF, which ensured that i could open the files.<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Office '08 - 01/25/08 04:31 AM

MS Works is a pain in the keyster. However, OpenOffice will open those documents, and Zamzar will translate them.<br><br>&#63743; &#63743; &#63743; &#63743;
Posted by: ScoutX

Re: Office '08 - 01/25/08 05:26 AM

I've had Scouts send me Eagle project workbooks saved in Works too. It is a pain. These are usually from Scouts whose parents do not work at a place that has a use-at-home agreement or do not work in a business environment and don't feel able to shell out the big bucks for Office. Fortunately NESA (the National Eagle Scout Association) makes the workbook available in both .doc and .rtf format. While .rft is understood by a great many applications, I have observed that the document size tends to grow very large when graphics are added to it. For an equivalent document, the .doc format seems to remain smaller. That's significant due to the number of times we exchange these projects via email.<br><br>Who serves his fellows, is of his fellows greatest - Chingachgook (by legend) <br><br>Scout
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: Office '08 - 01/25/08 06:00 AM

That bloating when adding graphics to a .rtf file sure is problematic as sometimes my whole writing could greatly benefit from some embedded images and graphics. However, one huge reason for for instance my previous employer having as a company policy to save Word files in .rtf format was macroviruses. Or actually the lack of them with the .rtf format so the reason was basically about file security. Actually at some point some email filters we and our clients had, might've blocked all .doc file attachments. Further, .doc format can also bloat with all the 'neat' special gimmicks and stuff allowed to put it in it with Word. Well, the Works format is probably the worst of all otherwise, well not to mention the uselessness of Works for much word-processing even I do writing my essays and thesis and such. Having said that, I use rtf as my personal default format in Word.<br><br>And well, as far as having just text in the document, doc format can be about three times as large as an rtf. Just tested this actually on a short essay of about 3-4 pages. The doc is about 30kB while the rtf is around 11kB. And well, a 24 page piece was 132kB as doc and 91kB as rtf. Not that it really matters on those sizes with todays hard drives. <br><br>
Posted by: FSM

Re: Office '08 - 01/25/08 06:51 AM

yeah, but i'd rather put the legwork on my students. <br><br>(side note: i wanted to use a different word than legwork, but i can't spell it -- i wanted to put the [sounds like: oh ness] on my students. i can't even look it up as i must be way off with my guesses -- honess, oness, ohness, ohnes, etc.).<br><br>
Posted by: padmavyuha

Re: Office '08 - 01/25/08 07:30 AM

Onus <br><br>[color:purple]A lopsided man runs best along the little side-hills of success<br>- Frank Moore Colby</font color=purple>
Posted by: ScoutX

Re: Office '08 - 01/25/08 07:32 AM

onus?<br><br>duty or responsibility<br><br>It is a funny looking word, for sure.<br><br>Who serves his fellows, is of his fellows greatest - Chingachgook (by legend) <br><br>Scout
Posted by: FSM

Re: Office '08 - 01/25/08 08:02 AM

DOH yes!!!<br><br>could it have been any more simple? <br><br>
Posted by: Jashue

Re: Office '08 - 01/25/08 10:24 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>i haven't tried opening docx files with Docs, but it opens and saves .doc just fine. and we're saving a lot of paper. <br><p><hr></blockquote><p>I never knew Google Docs existed until yesterday. Damn. In my day (15 years ago) we typed papers on our Macs, copied them to floppies, took 'em to compute labs to have 'em printed. And get this: the profs graded papers!<br><br>My how times have changed!<br><br>FYI-- I goofed around with Google Docs last night for a few minutes. Tried to upload a .docx file, and was treated to an advisory that Google Docs does not support that format.<br><br>Chalk another one up for Microsoft!<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Office '08 - 01/25/08 11:33 AM

Profs. still grade papers. Alas! <br><br>&#63743; &#63743; &#63743; &#63743;
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Office '08 - 01/25/08 09:05 PM

That's really sad that so many student's don't know what RTF is. Good thing they have you for a teacher! <br><br>
Posted by: FSM

Re: Office '08 - 01/25/08 09:07 PM

Speed tests from <a href="http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.24/24.03/Office2008Benchmark/">Mac Tech</a> (like our forum name):<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>For PowerPC Mac users, represented by our PowerBook G4 testing, on average:<br><br> * Word 2008 ran 35% slower than Word 2004<br> * Excel 2008 ran 65% slower than Excel 2004<br> * PowerPoint 2008 ran 9% slower than PowerPoint 2004<br> * Entourage 2008 ran 22% slower than Entourage 2004<br> * Graphics in Office 2008 ran 30% faster than Office 2004<p><hr></blockquote><p>i do most of my work on a G5 right now so my first priority is a new Mac Pro -- i just haven't had time to get the paperwork together to order it yet. doh.<br><br>but for Intel users, this is a good upgrade:<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>For Intel Mac users, on average:<br><br> * Word 2008 ran 37% faster than Word 2004<br> * Excel 2008 ran 22% faster than Excel 2004<br> * PowerPoint 2008 ran 40% faster than PowerPoint 2004<br> * Entourage 2008 ran 28% faster than Entourage 2004<br> * Graphics (common to all the applications) in Office 2008 ran 60% faster than Office 2004<br><br>To make this even more clear, when something says "30"% faster," that means that if it took 10 seconds on 2004, it took 7 seconds on 2008. This tends to understate "faster" when compared to perception.<p><hr></blockquote><p>