<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Right<br>So why the educators don't educate them to take a standard test?? After all they know what is coming and whats on the test?? Right its year after year.<p><hr></blockquote><p>ah, but the standardized testing is so very new. these tests are part of the no child left behind legislation that has swept the nation under dubya. trust me, EVERY teacher knows that they HAVE to teach to the test. i teach technology to teachers and i often hear that they cannot try new strategies and techniques until after the MEAP (michigan's standardized test) each year. this means that these teachers spend about about 80% - 90% of the school year teaching to the test with no time for fun and extra-curricular topics. something big happens in the news and they often have to ignore it with regard to class time because they are teaching to the test.<br><br>but to blame teachers for not teaching to the test when the test measures a complete schooling experience and the teachers have only known about the test for the last 2 years is pretty silly. <br><br>i had some teachers explain that their students knew the test was really for the school and not a part of their grade so they slacked-off and didn't take the testing seriously. perhaps the consequences to the kids in the articles are necessary to alleviate the problems that many schools encounter when that one kid tells everyone else in class that the test is not reflected on their personal grades (often this is true). one standardized test and whole school funding is decided by it. pretty pathetic way to allocate funds...especially considering that my new school district is one of the nicer districts in the state of michigan and we've had the highest scoring averages on the MEAP the last few years...our funding is going up and we are the last district that needs additional funding. the inner city school where i volunteer on tuesdays is going to lose money as a result of the testing. something tells me that this no child left behind is a trick to get more money funneled away from poor districts. damn shame because the scene i just described is going to be repeated in just about every single large metropolitan area in the country. 1 test that often means nothing to the students taking it (so they think). hmph!<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Educators have gotting into more "theory" then fact<p><hr></blockquote><p>where did that come from? if you honestly believe that then you should be mad as heck at dubya, for the policy, and the people who make the test because i guarantee you that the teachers are teaching specifically to the tests and you are implying that the tests are just theory???<br><br>why not try our test yourself?<br><a href="http://www.kentisd.org/takethetest.htm">TAKE THE TEST</a><br><br>[color:blue] -sean</font color=blue>
All good pionts - and I am not trying to make a fight.<br><br>My Opinions <br><br>(michigan's standardized test) each year. this means that these teachers spend about about 80% - 90% of the school year teaching to the test with no time for fun and extra-curricular topics.<br><br>Then why so many fail "country wide" or only in Michigan they excell?<br><br>but to blame teachers for not teaching to the test when the test measures a complete schooling experience and the teachers have only known about the test for the last 2 years is pretty silly. <br><br>This debate has been going on for decades - more so here - since we have such a diverse group of racial students from all over the world -It became the general feeling by many political activist, felt that teachers should be multi lingual at their choosen occupation and speak atleast 3 different languages at best - further more remove english as the #1 lauguage tought to students.<br><br>bottom line;<br>Tell me if a educator cannot prepare a student to take a standardise test - then all is really lost.<br><br>As a Nation there must be a standard to measure by.<br>The States can have their own standards, <br>Educators that educate<br>The students with their own goals<br><br>Anyway my whole point is that everyone in education is blaming one another. not solveing or fixing the big machine.<br>The parents well you guess it<br><br><br><br>
michigan is not doing so well. arkansas had fewer than 5 schools fail and we had closer to 100 in michigan...that points to a big problem in handing over control to that states yet divvying out funding from the feds. does anyone believe that arkansas teachers are that much better than michigan teachers or could their test just be much easier? NCLB legislation would lead you to believe arkansas teachers are nearly flawless. bad law.<br>if people really want teachers to prepare students for standardized testing then all other forms of evaluation are really a waste of time. you want a kid to write a research paper -- forget about it since that is a different project than a standardized test. you want a teacher to have a student create a multimedia presentation to go along with their speech (e.g., keynote, powerpoint)? forget about it, since that would never appear on any standardized test. you want a teacher to orally quiz his or her students over course material (e.g., playing jeopardy with the class)? forget about it since standardized testing doesn't care about a child's oral skills or listening skills. you want a teacher to have a child do anything beside the kinds of multiple choice problems that appear on almost every standardized testing around then you have to reward them for doing so and the current standardized testing is not set up for that. fortunately, schools are still using the other kinds of assessments because they are good practice for developing the whole child and teaching and presenting material to a diverse group of students who learn using various methods and approaches. the test doesn't care about that. when you meet with a client, do they select you because you can take a multiple choice test or do you talk with the client and get a certain comfort level via a face-to-face conversation? is all really lost if schools don't perfect standardized testing carp? <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Anyway my whole point is that everyone in education is blaming one another. not solveing or fixing the big machine.<p><hr></blockquote><p>i think the notion that things are broke is purely rhetoric. there are things wrong in education (particularly the inequities that exist from district to district) but, by-and-large, education is not broke. don't believe the hype.<br><br>[color:blue] -sean</font color=blue>
I really think that all these tests prove one thing: Americans are dumb.<br><br>Let's face it, a lot of the folks who came here didn't actually choose to come--they were sent here because folks in the old country couldn't stand them any more. Think of all the criminals, village idiots, ne'er do wells who ended up in the New World! We're scraping the bottom of the gene pool!<br><br>So it's absurd to think that we can educate our citizens. Teachers do their best, but they really can't hope to do much with the human equivalent of slime mold.<br><br>I mean, it's obvious, isn't it? The best of America is the Huck Finn type--no book larnin' at all, and barely capable of speaking the language, but on the whole a nice boy. And that's just proof positive that poverty or urban blight or drunken, ignorant parents or a culture that celebrates everything except intellectual achievement has nothing to do with our failings. Why Huck was a good country boy--no urban blight there. And sure Pap was a violent lush, but he had Aunt Polly, didn't he?<br><br>The best we can hope for is that a small percentage of kids, the cream of the crop, will succeed. And that's why I'm against public education for the masses. It's just throwing money away on a hopeless cause. We should select out the brightest kids and subsidize their education. Oh, it doesn't matter that the brightest kids, at least the ones who do the best in standardized tests, don't need subsidies for the most part because they come from affluent families. Give them more money so they can have the best of everything.<br><br>And for the other kids--well, there's not much use for them anyway. How many burger flippers do we really need, anyway? Once upon a time they could have done something useful with their hands, I guess, or gone off West, like Huck, to civilize the savages out there. But all that's gone.<br><br>Anyone have a solution for those kids?<br><br><br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"
_________________________ MACTECHubi dolor ibi digitus
Sorry Doc.<br><br>But when it comes to a multiple choice question and a student cannot answer that - what ya think?? Who failed??<br>The student?<br>The educator?<br>The system?<br><br>I get it its the test that failed - right?<br><br>
YoYo<br>Thats good writing LOL<br>Ghee can you teach your students to write like that maybe then they can pass a stardard test.<br><br>I am not picking on you both but on education in general.<br>I don't like the hear a 6th grade teacher saying that 5th grade students entering his class cannot read at that level.<br><br>Hence to me in my opinion is to teach the students to pass the dang standard test then go on yer merry way to teach whatever you want is fine with me,<br><br>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>But when it comes to a multiple choice question and a student cannot answer that - what ya think?? Who failed??<p><hr></blockquote><p>each case could be the result of a single failing or multiple failings (e.g., the student -- who may be thinking about being beaten or missing many meals or who may have missed 1/2 of the instruction due to absences..., the teacher -- but what if the rest of the class got it right?, the parents -- let's fund schools based on parents who don't care, eh -- punish all the kids because some parent don't care?, the curriculum, the system, the man, etc.). i am not pointing fingers; i am suggesting that the finger gets pointed in many different directions and it varies from case to case, but the consequences for failure do not take notice of many of the symptoms -- in fact, the consequences only punish the schools and expect them to do more miracles (e.g., read al's post). <br><br>again, i think schools and teachers are doing a great job given the time and limited resources they have. <br><br>[color:blue] -sean</font color=blue>
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