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You are not logged in. [Log In] AppleCentral » Forums » General Discussion » Soapbox » The Fallacy of the term "Big Gov-ment "!!
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#596370 - 06/12/13 12:11 PM Re: The Fallacy of the term "Big Gov-ment "!! [Re: musicalmarv7]
steveg Offline
Making a new reply.

Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 27495
Loc: D'OHio
Um... Did you forget about Congress? smirk
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#596371 - 06/12/13 01:34 PM Re: The Fallacy of the term "Big Gov-ment "!! [Re: Llewelyn]
DLC Offline
I invented modding!

Registered: 11/04/02
Posts: 20167
Loc: Lindale, TX (Tyler)
That IS a valid point... more outsourcing than ever before... However I don't know what those # are. The Govt. gives a contract and the contractor decides how many to hire or not hire. I have seen at CDC that outsourcing claims to be cheaper, but it actually costs more** and many times results in undesirable outcomes. It does have the advantage that the Govt can cancel at any time, though there is usually an extra cost for that too. I believe it's being grossly overused. Again, as Steve said - Congress provides for those deals.

**Think of this - the contractor builds in profit to the total cost whereas the Govt does not.

CDC example: when I got there in 1989 there was a "mom and pop" outfit (small business) running the cafeteria. In the early 1990s, some yahoo decided to give it to a bigger contractor - the place has never been the same since. In fact right as I was retiring in Aug 2012, they had to shut it down for months "because of vermin" !! And the food has NEVER been as good as with the original even though they've gone through 5-6 contractors since then. I just loved paying higher prices for inferior food..I only ate breakfast there and occasionally lunch if we had visitors. So much for contractors!

_________________________
David (OFI)

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#596376 - 06/12/13 03:45 PM Re: The Fallacy of the term "Big Gov-ment "!! [Re: DLC]
yoyo52 Offline
Nothing comes of nothing.

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 30520
Loc: PA, USA
Outsourcing--the single most destructive practice of any enterprise. My school has outsourced the cafeteria/food services, with the same results that you've experienced, David; the bookstore, with prices for students going through the roof (they tack on a profit margin that would make even Steve Jobs blush); the copying services, which makes it impossible to use the service if you want to have materials for classes because it takes so god-awful long; the buildings and grounds services, which means my office hasn't even been dusted for three years. There's only one thing left: faculty. And now that there are all these MOOCs, we're next. That'll leave the administrators. God bless their little little souls.
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MACTECH ubi dolor ibi digitus

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#596378 - 06/12/13 03:54 PM Re: The Fallacy of the term "Big Gov-ment "!! [Re: Llewelyn]
Celandine Offline
Madame Flutterbye

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 19514
Loc: SopranoLand
Originally Posted By: Llewelyn
But the fallacy of your argument is that the government is outsourcing services. There are services that the government used to provide that are now outsourced to private organisations (Blackwater springs readily to mind). The "free" stuff like healthcare, internet, cell phones, are paid for by the government yet there are no government workers providing these services.

I'd say your friend and you are both right - but you need to look at the whole equation, not just your popular side of it.

“OUTSOURCING” Thy Name Is CHENEY!

____

KBR: Kickbacks, Bribes, Ripoffs & War Racketeering


"Blackwater springs readily to mind"

... as does
Privatizing Social Security, Prisons, & the Post Office. whistle
_________________________

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#596379 - 06/12/13 04:38 PM Re: The Fallacy of the term "Big Gov-ment "!! [Re: Celandine]
Celandine Offline
Madame Flutterbye

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 19514
Loc: SopranoLand

Bunny Greenhouse
Chief Procurement Officer Army Corps of Engineers, Whistleblower

"Let there be no mistake, I was downgraded in performance and removed because I did my job too well…My removal serves to clarify that the power structure will no longer tolerate efforts to curb contract abuse. Regardless, I still believe that Integrity in Government is not an option, but an obligation."
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#596419 - 06/13/13 10:30 AM Re: The Fallacy of the term "Big Gov-ment "!! [Re: steveg]
musicalmarv7 Offline
musicalmarv7

Registered: 03/14/10
Posts: 2850
Loc: Philippines
Congress this is a joke!

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#596462 - 06/14/13 03:23 PM Re: The Fallacy of the term "Big Gov-ment "!! [Re: DLC]
MrB Offline
I invented modding!

Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 9722
Loc: SE Kansas
"Government employees"

Would one also include thse who get money from the government? Aka "welfare" which includes thse who create no product but receive dividends, like Social security

Dave
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If we don't count our blessings
We are just wasting our time

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#596463 - 06/14/13 04:07 PM Re: The Fallacy of the term "Big Gov-ment "!! [Re: MrB]
DLC Offline
I invented modding!

Registered: 11/04/02
Posts: 20167
Loc: Lindale, TX (Tyler)
I wouldn't include SS recipients- they PAID for the SS to begin with. It's earned !!

The Welfare recipients - I dunno. Like Govt employees, but no retirement, no health benefits (unless also on Medicaid) and limited income. Welfare payments aren't much, unless they're double or triple dipping. BUT then to find that out, you need more Govt employees (oversight).

I think that's one reason the GOP likes to cut Govt jobs, so the whole system collapses and they can whine about the whole Govt being worthless... except for DOD and sticking our noses in every crap hole in the world for which we pay Giga bucks and have little to show for it. Other countries spend 20 X LESS, and I don't see them being overrun with terrorists ! So we're getting very little from it IMO !!
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David (OFI)

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#596473 - 06/15/13 01:36 AM Re: The Fallacy of the term "Big Gov-ment "!! [Re: DLC]
yoyo52 Offline
Nothing comes of nothing.

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 30520
Loc: PA, USA
If social security recipients are somehow or other lesser beings because they're on a form of "welfare," then anyone at all who has a retirement pension is in the same boat. But then again, at least in PA, that's what the wingnuts are saying about teachers, whose pensions are bankrupting the state. What no one remembers is that the very generous retirement system for state workers that teachers enjoy at present was instituted by our last conservative gov. before the current one, who wanted to give his equally conservative state congress and senate members a comfy retirement under the new system he proposed. Because the whole thing was for "state employees," the teachers came under the same provision. And what's really neat is that the state branch of the NEA warned that the new system would bankrupt the state. But the governor went and had it passed anyways. So now, naturally, it's all the teachers' fault, and the current conservative gov. is cheerfully cutting state funding to the schools to prevent the catastrophe. Jerk.

You might remember the gov. who did the dirty here in PA. The 1st secretary of Homeland Security, the honorable Mr. Tom (Brow) Ridge.


Edited by yoyo52 (06/15/13 01:41 AM)
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MACTECH ubi dolor ibi digitus

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#596479 - 06/15/13 02:36 AM Re: The Fallacy of the term "Big Gov-ment "!! [Re: yoyo52]
DLC Offline
I invented modding!

Registered: 11/04/02
Posts: 20167
Loc: Lindale, TX (Tyler)
I love the way the GOP preaches "responsibility" and then takes NONE !!

The GOP Congress back in 1950-1952 passed a law that the President can serve no more than 2 terms (because of FDR serving 3+) and then in 1988 wished they could run Reagan for a 3rd term ! DUH !! Here's your sign !!

The GOP Congress passed extra security laws and bypassed FISA regs under Homeland Security in 2001 and now they're whining about Govt intrusion into privacy! DUH !! Here's your sign !!

What hypocrites and ones with VERY short term memory !! crazy
_________________________
David (OFI)

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