LOL that's my view... yes the Govt snoops and collects data on us , but private enterprise already has 10X as much. They know how and where you shop, what you buy, your preferences... have all your contact data. WTF do they NOT know? very damm little.... They probably know how many times you had sex in the last week/month, with whom, and how long it lasted !
. . . and which contraceptive you used (if any).
What pisses me off about private enterprise is they SELL your data to others and make $ wo your permission.... BTW you capitalistic MoFos, where's MY cut of the moola ?
Silly Me: I STILL Refuse to allow Google to Consolidate and STORE my MAIL (...forever...) on the grounds that I may Trust Them At THIS Point-In-Time... ...but Who Knows What the Future Might Bring...
#596375 - 06/12/1302:56 PMRe: Data mining
[Re: garyW]
six_of_one
Pool Bar
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 4474
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Quote:
There are many taking sides in this debate that collection of metadata is the tryannical Big Brother regime. (These people need to get a grip.)
In and of itself, this program may not be Big Brother, but it sure is a huge step in that direction. You may or may not trust the Obama administration to not abuse all that information just sitting there waiting to be accessed, but what about future administrations? Or more likely, some mid-level government worker bee with issues of some sort and just enough access and smarts to start playing with the data? Judicial review and "safeguards" only work if people play by the rules (and if everybody did, then there wouldn't be programs like this in the first place ;-) It's the people who ignore those rules that we have to worry about -- and given the past history of some administrations, that's a very legitimate concern ...
Also, given that the argument seems to be "but we're not spying on US citizens, just everyone else on the planet," if you're anyone but a US citizen living in the US, you've got to be feeling really warm and fuzzy about our government right now =P
#596377 - 06/12/1303:54 PMRe: Data mining
[Re: six_of_one]
garyW
mid-century modern
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 8329
Originally Posted By: six_of_one
Quote:
There are many taking sides in this debate that collection of metadata is the tryannical Big Brother regime. (These people need to get a grip.)
In and of itself, this program may not be Big Brother, but it sure is a huge step in that direction. You may or may not trust the Obama administration to not abuse all that information just sitting there waiting to be accessed, but what about future administrations? Or more likely, some mid-level government worker bee with issues of some sort and just enough access and smarts to start playing with the data? Judicial review and "safeguards" only work if people play by the rules (and if everybody did, then there wouldn't be programs like this in the first place ;-) It's the people who ignore those rules that we have to worry about -- and given the past history of some administrations, that's a very legitimate concern ... P
Reality check:
Digital records of every digital transaction are not going to disappear, whether it's government or private corporations.
There will always be criminals in government and contracted workers.
No matter the safegaurds, someone will hack it.
Judicial oversight does not have to be a rubber stamp for 100% of warrant requests.
Legislated regulations must be enforced.
Congress does need to be filled with idiots who ignore their legislative responsibilities and act only for political gain.
The media will ignore history and fact, sensationalize any story and be politically influenced.
How does our country begin to fix this? Seems step #1 is paranoia (and we may be stuck here for a while)
#596395 - 06/12/1309:57 PMRe: Data mining
[Re: garyW]
six_of_one
Pool Bar
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 4474
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Quote:
How does our country begin to fix this? Seems step #1 is paranoia
It's not paranoia if it's really happening -- go back, say, 20 years and tell me we have the same protection against government surveillance and intrusion as we did in 1993.
The reality check is that 4th Amendment guarantees have been steadily eroded in favor of a more surveillance-oriented state "for our protection." Add to that Corporations having the same rights as human beings, money being free speech, the Executive having the power to detain foreign nationals and execute American citizens without due process (we're at war with Oceania Terrorists, after all!), and a Congress apparently run by eight-year-olds ... at this point a little healthy paranoia is probably a good thing ;-)
How the country fixes all of these is first to recognize what's been happening -- which is already taking place, albeit with attendant over- and under-reactions from various points of view. Then we can have that conversation Barry was talking about and hopefully establish what kind of society we want to remain/become in the face of advancing technology and capability ...
White door, ninth floor, silent number It's autumn on a cold avenue Telex intercept, he sips a cigarette And warms up his V.D.U.
He gets his kicks from microchips Orders from the C.I.A. Birobugs and lasers, casual surveillance Boardrooms and communiques
Don't use your phone and don't use mine Don't speak treason, they're tapping the line
Break-in, stake out, tell it in code Everything's legal, anything goes The nights gettinG darker and an ill wind blows Your life's in a databank at ASIO
Trained in the ghettos of the Lebanon Truncheons and an M16 Selling skag, a U.N. flag Now he's trading in securities
Darwin rendezvous, a B-52, trenchcoat slightly creased From a coup in Asia, A U.S. Air Force major Buying dirty laundry, swearin' it's for peace
Infiltration, we'll never know Just like Chile but the bruises don't show
Break-in, stake out, tell it in code Everything's legal, anything goes The nights get darker and an ill wind blows Your life's in a databank at ASIO
Spook behind the bar, unmarked car Rumour hangs like stale perfume Flushing under beds, sniffin' out the Reds Nobody can feel immune
No names, no stress, no blame, no press Clean when the dirty work's done Allocate a budget, special branch thugs Do it for the practice, do it for the fun
Midnight, flashlight, a crash on the door Rats on the table, blood on the floor
Break-in, stake out, tell it in code Everything's legal, anything goes The nights get darker and an ill wind blows Your life's in a databank at ASIO