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You are not logged in. [Log In] AppleCentral » Forums » Mac » Hardware » MacMini DVD/CD Player Problems!
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#594070 - 05/01/13 07:31 PM Re: MacMini DVD/CD Player Problems! [Re: Reboot]
Reboot Offline

Muhahahaha

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 15046
Loc: Columbus OH
I love this place. cool

Wish I had the resources to get all of us active members together for a bash.
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#594072 - 05/01/13 07:54 PM Re: MacMini DVD/CD Player Problems! [Re: six_of_one]
NucleusG4 Offline
Master•Blaster

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 12486
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Originally Posted By: six_of_one
Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
Then you should have added another comma smarty pants.

Yeah, unless you go with the tower they're POS laptop drives.

is different than

Yeah, unless you go with the tower, they're POS laptop drives.



Hmmm.. he didn't have his in quotes..
And without a comma, "they're" references the word preceding it.

Hmmm ...

Yeah, unless you go with the tower (they're POS laptop drives)

or

Yeah, unless you go with the tower -- they're POS laptop drives.

Is how you're interpreting things. But I'm thinking no punctuation at all was correct usage for what Jim meant to convey ...

But to be honest, they both read pretty much the same ... the comma you added seems more a phrasing pause than an actual change of meaning ...

Of course, "Yeah, they're POS laptop drives unless you go with the tower" might have been less ambiguous to begin with =)
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#594073 - 05/01/13 07:54 PM Re: MacMini DVD/CD Player Problems! [Re: Reboot]
NucleusG4 Offline
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Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 12486
Loc: Miami, Fl.
These hands are deadly weapons! Woosh woosh...chop..chop.
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#594074 - 05/01/13 08:10 PM Re: MacMini DVD/CD Player Problems! [Re: NucleusG4]
NucleusG4 Offline
Master•Blaster

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 12486
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Ooops.. I quoted the whole post somehow.
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#594081 - 05/01/13 10:53 PM Re: MacMini DVD/CD Player Problems! [Re: NucleusG4]
six_of_one Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 4474
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Quote:
Hmmm.. he didn't have his in quotes..
And without a comma, "they're" references the word preceding it.


Disclaimer: I am not taking this seriously at all -- just a fun exercise ;-)

Context is everything:

[In discussing the optical drives in Apple computers] Unless you go with the tower they're POS laptop drives.

In this case, "they're" must refer to something other than "tower" because a) disagreement in number, and b) a tower is obviously not a drive. Given the context, the reference is obviously to the hard drives ...


Similarly:

I love these sandals. Unless you have big feet they're quite comfortable footwear.

and

I love these sandals. Unless you have big feet, they're quite comfortable footwear.

To me say exactly the same thing. The second may be more correct grammatically (and less clunky to read), but adding the comma doesn't really appear to change the actual meaning in this case =)

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#594086 - 05/02/13 01:03 AM Re: MacMini DVD/CD Player Problems! [Re: Reboot]
yoyo52 Offline
Nothing comes of nothing.

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 30520
Loc: PA, USA
To avoid all confusion, you ought to provide the proper ( smile ) subordinating conjunction to the understood main clause. The "Yeah" really means "Yes, optical drives on computers are always one of the first components to fail." The clause that follows is composed of two subordinate clauses, but the first subordinating conjunction is left out (it's understood). The second subordinating conjunction is "unless." So to avoid confusion the sentence ought to read as follows:

"Yeah, because, unless you go with the tower, they're POS laptop drives."

And to be fully expressive (I love this stuff!), it would look like this:

"Yes, optical drives on computers are always one of the first components to fail because, unless you go with the tower, they're POS laptop drives."

Ya had to start this stuff up!


Edited by yoyo52 (05/02/13 01:06 AM)
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#594087 - 05/02/13 01:26 AM Re: MacMini DVD/CD Player Problems! [Re: yoyo52]
Reboot Offline

Muhahahaha

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 15046
Loc: Columbus OH
Originally Posted By: yoyo52
To avoid all confusion, you ought to provide the proper ( smile ) subordinating conjunction to the understood main clause.
I love when you talk dirty Grammar. blush
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#594088 - 05/02/13 02:56 AM Re: MacMini DVD/CD Player Problems! [Re: Reboot]
yoyo52 Offline
Nothing comes of nothing.

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 30520
Loc: PA, USA
I love subordinating others. smile
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#594095 - 05/02/13 05:55 AM Re: MacMini DVD/CD Player Problems! [Re: yoyo52]
six_of_one Offline
Pool Bar

Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 4474
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Originally Posted By: yoyo52
To avoid all confusion, you ought to provide the proper ( smile ) subordinating conjunction to the understood main clause. The "Yeah" really means "Yes, optical drives on computers are always one of the first components to fail." The clause that follows is composed of two subordinate clauses, but the first subordinating conjunction is left out (it's understood). The second subordinating conjunction is "unless." So to avoid confusion the sentence ought to read as follows:

"Yeah, because, unless you go with the tower, they're POS laptop drives."

And to be fully expressive (I love this stuff!), it would look like this:

"Yes, optical drives on computers are always one of the first components to fail because, unless you go with the tower, they're POS laptop drives."

Ya had to start this stuff up!


That notwithstanding, the original objection was that Jim failed to include a comma at one point in the statement that was actually made (as opposed to the optimal verbiage you propose). I still maintain the addition of that comma would have made no difference in terms of comprehension ...

In regards:

"Yeah, because, unless you go with the tower, they're POS laptop drives."

I'd maintain that "because" and the comma afterwards is superfluous -- the main point being "Unless you go with the tower(,) they're POS laptop drives," which says the same thing while being more economical. Which brings us back to the original sentence.

And I agree your ultimate solution is more expressive. But in the practical sense of a conversation, restating what has already been said isn't necessarily beneficial* ...



*Unless you're having a KM-like conversation, in which case you'd need to recapitulate entire pages ;-)

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#594117 - 05/02/13 03:56 PM Re: MacMini DVD/CD Player Problems! [Re: six_of_one]
yoyo52 Offline
Nothing comes of nothing.

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 30520
Loc: PA, USA
You're right. My point is that the confusion derives from the suppression of the subordinating conjunction, "because." That kind of stuff happens all the time in both spoken and written English, and sometimes leads to the ambiguity that started the discussion of grammar. In some cases a comma could reduce the ambiguity, and in this case, I agree with the point. But that's not true in every case where subordinating conjunctions are suppressed.

Anyway, I'm not advocating for the "fully expressive" form (and by fully expressive I mean that in that sentence every grammatical clause is clearly expressed)--I used that to underscore the grammar and, as a consequence, the original punctuational point that underlie the ambiguity.
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