I dealt with that in my reply to six.

km

Just to comment on one point:


There's at least one credible report that says there was. Musharraf says he never agreed to anything, but according to the alleged agreement that's exactly what he would say ;-)

I seriously doubt we'll ever really know for sure -- and I doubt a trial could clear that up absent an actual uncontested document ...


;-)

We know there was no formal agreement between Pakistan and the US from White House statements and ex post facto Parliamentary debates in Pakistan... therefore the soldiers' entry was illegal. It's the same over here and in the States... if intelligence fruitcakes or any other wingnut suddenly start trying to give 'permission' for aliens to enter the country they still happen to be illegal immigrants and going around shooting people only makes their situation worse.

km

As if having him alive would prove anything.
You would argue that he was lying to seem like a badass to his minions.
Argue till you're blue in the face.
He's dead.
We killed him.
And nothing will come of it.
Nothing.

Well, it would prove belief in your own principles.


What's so great about that? Unconvicted murderers all over the world could echo that sentiment.

km

Well, I've heard no reports denying such an agreement from the White House -- just that they did not inform the Pakistani government of the raid until afterwards, which it is allowed to do under the alleged agreement ...

Similarly, public debate in Pakistan denying the existence of such an agreement is exactly what the alleged agreement calls for ...

It's quite a brilliant report if false, since short of a direct US denial there's no way to disprove it ...

It's also a quite brilliant agreement if it actually exists, since it gives everyone involved appropriate cover and there's no way to prove its existence short of producing an actual, signed document -- which the US would almost certainly have and which Pakistan would fight tooth-and-nail from being made public ...

It will be interesting to see if Pakistan actually presses charges on this ...



Not if such fruitcakes and wingnuts are government officials authorized to give such permission. In the case of this report, that official is the President of Pakistan, whom I assume has the appropriate legal authority.

Entry at the border is either lawful or not at the time of entry - anything else would be a miracle.


The judiciary in Pakistan is independent of the executive... since a person's immigration status in Pakistan is a question of law an undisclosed clandestine alleged 'agreement' made with some fruitcake employed by the government can't validate an illegal entry... it's the same in the States.


They weren't - that's clear from their Parliamentary debates.

km

Quite. If one has a signed document from the government of that country allowing passage, I would imagine that to qualify as "lawful."



Well, if the situation in Pakistan is the same as in the US, customs, border control, issuance of visas, etc. fall under the Executive, to which the law gives discretion as to who is and is not allowed into the country. And that "friutcake" to whom you keep referring is allegedly the Chief Executive of the country -- in two different governments no less ...



Is it? I admit to not following them closely. Although I would imagine such debates would be centered around the Executive's use of his power rather than the lack of it. I'll have to go see if I can find something =)

I never said there was anything great about that.. did you think I was bragging or something? LOL... you read too much into things. I am merely saying that nothing will come of this...




??? not sure what that is supposed to mean....
Oh.. Obama.. well.. he'll deal with it in his own way. I'm not concerned about that.. I'm sure he'll GET AWAY WITH IT...


LOL

No - it's clear from the debates that the government signed no document allowing passage. A secret agreement allowing passage would require a change in the law to be valid - which can't be effected by the government.


In the States if an executive fruitcake officially refuses entry to a bunch of Mexican bandits, say, but secretly makes an agreement allowing them in - the bandits are illegal immigrants - the official refusal trumps the clandestine agreement - and it's the same in Pakistan.

km