No it doesn't work that like that - the point is that if we condone illegal border incursions and the summary execution of Arabs we can't complain when we ourselves are victims of acts like 9/11.

km

No, I mean an investigation. What usually happens over here is that law enforcement usually investigates an alleged crime first before handing something to a prosecutor -- gathering evidence that a crime has in fact been committed and who the perpetrator(s) may be. They then have to convince a prosecutor and then a judge, either of which may demand further investigation if they feel the evidence won't support a prosecution or simply dismiss the matter if such evidence isn't compelling. This before even thinking about going to trial.



Not really sure where you're getting that bin Laden's body was mutilated, but the mere fact that an unarmed man was fatally shot won't get you past a prosecutor's office much less a pre-trial hearing or a full-blown court. All of those will demand credible evidence that the shooting was a criminal act in the first place. And just that an unarmed man was shot dead isn't by itself such evidence. Hence an investigation.

So what do your coroners do over there then? In Pakistan they usually hold inquests. As a matter of fact an inquest into his death is required by Pakistan law and international law.


From what Senator Inhofe said after seeing the pictures.


That already exists - as plainly as the nose on your face.

km

I forget where he lives, maybe by Manila.

I'm just going to go by the backgrounds in his Karaoke ( pretty cool, technology-wise, everything is on one chip in the mic, control code, head amp, etc, you pluck and chuck another chip for the playlists of thousands of songs - his default is a Philippines setting playlist - you just jack in to your home theater and karaoke - he's pretty good - Filipinos love karaoke ).

So, I'll just go by the backgrounds of stunningly beautiful beaches, resorts, etc - I'll go "what's that John?" and he'll tell me, and we'll go there and check it out.

Actually, I was born in the P.I., in the Masonic temple near Clark Field, as my father was the temple master ( mother Eastern Star ) and we lived in the temple. He worked for the U.S. and also for the P.I.'s richest man, as a civil engineer. Very early on, after moving permanently to the P.I., after some adventures, brief teaching stint at Penn, etc, after serving in the P.I. during the Spanish-American War ( very old dad, born 1880, fathered me at 69 ), apparently a colonizer, since he surveyed, built roads and bridges, etc, surveyed provinces, introduced taxation to mayors, etc. Before a generation of old Filipinos died, he was considered some sort of god. Personal friend of Magsaysay and McArthur, etc. Interred at Santo Tomas University for the war, where he lost 100 pounds of bodyweight, etc. He forbade speaking Tagalog in the family, and wanted us kids to have an American education, so we left when I was four or five. Funny that my heretic father was accorded a Catholic funeral - However, I vaguely remember Sunday dinners where Father Steffes and altarboys were regulars at the table, along with a retinue of what I assume were local Catholics, and of course Masons. All myth, however, has an affinity for myth, obviously.

However, I'm a lone wolf. Never belonged to an organization or club, and never will; although the Philippines sounds like there's a huge element of paracitism to it.

Determine cause, time and manner of death, mainly. Also often issue and maintain death certificates and various other functions depending on the local jurisdiction. They can hold an inquest in order to determine these facts, which obviously involves a certain amount of investigation in and of itself, and facts gathered from an inquest can be forwarded to law enforcement officials for further investigation and eventual prosecution if warranted ...



Ah, I read your comment as saying bin Laden was shot then further mutilated afterward, which is different from and a bit more sinister than being mutilated by the gunshots themselves ...



Obviously, that's a matter of opinion at this point ;-)

Everything you say about the US coroner would apply to bin Laden were it not for the fact that he died in Pakistan. Where you have a victim who's both armed and unarmed, putting up resistance but cowering behind his wife and then shot dead by illegal immigrants you have a classic case for an inquest.


Well, it only takes one shot to the head to kill someone so subsequent shots would be acts of mutilation.


Not really - that there's a prima facie case for prosecution is an objective truth, although I agree it could be preceeded by a coroner's inquest and interrogation of the suspects to assemble the evidence.

km

I actually would have no problem with an inquest as part of an impartial inquiry as to what actually happened and if crimes had been committed -- it's more along the lines of investigation I've been suggesting than simply arresting people and putting them on trial.



Well, you said your prima facie case at this point is based on the fact that an apparently unarmed man was shot dead. While I guess a prosecutor *could* go with just that, without any investigation or development of evidence that that shooting actually constitutes a criminal act I can't imagine such a case making it terribly far ...


FWIW, on one point I think the US has a pretty good case that bin Laden was a legitimate, legal target for it to go after ... so I think a case for unlawful homicide on that score is less than compelling at this point ...

Where I agree the US is on more shaky legal grounds is wether it had the right to do so while violating another ostensibly-non-combatant country's borders. But I also think a hearing on this particular matter will never see the light of day since neither the US nor Pakistan will want to make public any under-the-table deals they may have regarding this kind of thing ... that, and there's enough countries that would rather that particular subject not be settled one way or another.

Well thats the thing about arm chair quarter backing - IT IS TO EASY.

Believeme, if you were there you had about a (nono second) to decide if Osama was going for a weapon or his fave Porn Video.

That, the illegality of the raid, the use of excessive force, official misrepresentations of the facts and concealment of evidence in that bizarre illegal 'funeral' all contribute to a prima facie case. The ICC can proceed from its own warrants of arrest but of course the defendants would enjoy a presumption of innocence and will be discharged if found not guilty.

km

I could do that in a nano.
I could do that in a pico.