• AppleCentral Network:
  • Tech Support
  • |
  • Open Source
  • |
  • Apple News
  • |
  • Register Domains
  • |
  • SSL Certificates
  • |
  • iPod Deals
  • |
  • Mac Deals
  • |
  • Mac Book Shelf
  • AppleCentral Home
  • MacTech Magazine
    • About MacTech in Print
    • Issue Table of Contents
    • Subscribe
    • Risk Free Sample
    • Back Issues
    • MacTech DVD
    • MacTech Archives
    • MacTech Print Archives
    • MacMod
    • MacTutor
    • FrameWorks
    • develop
  • MacNews.com
    • MacNews News
    • Blog
    • MacTech Reviews and KoolTools
    • Whitepapers, Screencasts, Videos and Books
    • News Scanner
    • Rumors Scanner
    • Documentation Scanner
  • Apple Expo
    • by Category
    • by Company
    • by Product
  • MacForge.net
  • Job Board
  • Advertising
    • Benefits of MacTech
    • Mechanicals and Submission
    • Dates and Deadlines
    • Submit Apple Expo Entry
  • User
    • Register for Ongoing Raffles
    • Register new user
    • Edit User Settings
    • Logout
  • Contact
    • Customer Service
    • Webmaster Feedback
    • Submit News or PR
    • Suggest an article
  • Connect Tools
    • MacTech Live Podcast
    • RSS Feeds
    • Twitter
You are not logged in. [Log In] AppleCentral » Forums » General Discussion » Soapbox » Laugh a minute...
Register User    Forum List        Active Topics    FAQ
Page 7 of 18 < 1 2 ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... 17 18 >
Go to page...
Topic Options
Hop to:
#557725 - 05/13/11 04:14 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: keymaker]
NucleusG4 Offline
Master•Blaster

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 12486
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Quote:

Well, a dead person cannot be put on trial so



Ho ho ho... too funny.
I was speaking of before.. I didn't know if you were arguing for a trial of OBL as opposed to his murder.

Which people should be on trial for (potentially) murder?
_________________________
http://davidbearphotography.com/



Top
#557727 - 05/13/11 04:20 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: NucleusG4]
keymaker Offline


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 6026
Oh, before, he should have been arrested and put in trial because he was suspected of murder... as a matter of fact that is my point. cry

km

Top
#557728 - 05/13/11 04:23 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: six_of_one]
katlpablo Offline
aguakatle

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 684
Loc: borikén·Aẏtiyas AbyaYala...
A reply to Hitchens' reply to Chomsky:

George Scialabba: Hitchens Distorts Noam Chomsky
_________________________

DSA—DSGB
 »[VIDEO]»

Top
#557729 - 05/13/11 04:28 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: keymaker]
six_of_one Offline
Pool Bar

Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 4474
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Quote:
Holder misunderstands the law if he believes that a victim's willingness to surrender in that situation determines the response permitted by those soldiers - and unfortunately for him that's what he implied.

No, that's what you inferred. Again, the legal justification he cites in the interview has nothing to do with surrender or not, so I'm not sure why you keep putting those words into his mouth:

"The attorney general reiterated that the operation was legal, saying that international law allows the targeting of enemy commanders."

"It was an act of national self-defense." (from the video)


Quote:
Sending planes over to New York with specially trained crew is not the same as standing bearded and unarmed in a concrete compound surrounded by soldiers.

I gather Holder's assessment is based more on the ongoing threat bin Laden posed to the US as the enemy commander not just on the immediate situational threat bin Laden and his beard(??!) may have posed during the actual raid.

Top
#557731 - 05/13/11 04:45 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: six_of_one]
keymaker Offline


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 6026
Quote:
that's what you inferred.

That's right - because that's what he implied.

Quote:
the legal justification he cites in the interview has nothing to do with surrender

No that's wrong - the only legal justification for killing someone in these circumstance is self defence meaning that the soldiers believed they had to kill him to stay alive themselves. Holder's reference to bin Laden's willingness to "surrender" suggests a misunderstanding of the law in that regard. wink

km

Top
#557733 - 05/13/11 05:18 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: keymaker]
katlpablo Offline
aguakatle

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 684
Loc: borikén·Aẏtiyas AbyaYala...
Not directed at anyone in particular… but to us all…

Joshua Holland:
Was the Killing of Osama bin Laden Legal?

May 13, 2011

"What’s clear is that people on both sides of the debate have had an emotional reaction to bin Laden’s death. They’re embracing as fact whatever claims support their reactions, and selecting only those sources of law that lend credence to their previously held assumptions."


Edited by katlpablo (05/13/11 05:20 PM)
Edit Reason: Added quote.
_________________________

DSA—DSGB
 »[VIDEO]»

Top
#557734 - 05/13/11 05:33 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: katlpablo]
NucleusG4 Offline
Master•Blaster

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 12486
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Quote:
I'm simply positing that this mission was successful as planned.

That makes no sense.
So of all the missions ever executed.. you can definitively say this one went according to plan because he is dead.

Come on.. you can do better than that....
_________________________
http://davidbearphotography.com/



Top
#557735 - 05/13/11 06:03 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: keymaker]
six_of_one Offline
Pool Bar

Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 4474
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Well, it looks like we could go 'round and 'round with the "surrender as justification" theme that you seem to get from what Holder said and I clearly disagree. But this seems to be the crux of your point:


Quote:
- the only legal justification for killing someone in these circumstance is self defence meaning that the soldiers believed they had to kill him to stay alive themselves.

You're trying to apply tests regarding an individual's right to self defense against personal attack to a State engaged in hostilities against an enemy, and those tests just don't scale appropriately ...

A State has a right to self defense and the right to kill an enemy engaged in hostilities against it. Were that not true warfare itself would be illegal, which, for better or worse, is clearly not the case ...

During such hostilities, a General, for example, doesn't have to be physically brandishing a weapon before he can become a legitimate target for his enemies -- that he plans and directs others who do the actual fighting legally makes him as much a combatant as they are. Likewise, bin Laden in his capacity as leader of al Qaeda -- an organization actively engaged in hostilities against the United States and actively planning further action against it -- didn't need to be actually holding a gun or threatening to detonate a bomb before becoming a legal, legitimate target for US forces ...

Holder's point I think is that short of bin Laden actually offering to surrender, killing him was a legal act of State self defense in the context of ongoing hostilities between al Qaeda and the United States ...

Top
#557738 - 05/13/11 06:57 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: NucleusG4]
katlpablo Offline
aguakatle

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 684
Loc: borikén·Aẏtiyas AbyaYala...
My interpretation is that the mission's real objective was to kill Bin Laden and that they succeeded.

Do you think this mission failed? Do you think this mission was to capture and bring him in alive?
_________________________

DSA—DSGB
 »[VIDEO]»

Top
#557739 - 05/13/11 07:01 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: keymaker]
DLC Offline
I invented modding!

Registered: 11/04/02
Posts: 20167
Loc: Lindale, TX (Tyler)
Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
the SEALs thought he was tring to reach a weapon or something.

That's what's been said but we don't know whether it's true. There'd never be a single criminal prosecution if we started with the assumption that what the suspect says is true.

Quote:
NO ONE in the world can say it's justified or not, except the 2 SEALs

No that's wrong - the question whether someone is guilty of an offence is never entrusted to the suspect but to a duly constituted court.

km


SEALs suspect of what ? Defending themselves ?

No it's NOT wrong if they thought he was going to try to escape, grab a weapon, or hit some kind of doomsday button and become a instant martyr.

YOU're making too many assumptions, including that they're guilty instead of being innocent. You can pull that cr@p in the UK, but it doesn't fly over here, Union Jack ! wink
_________________________
David (OFI)

Top
Page 7 of 18 < 1 2 ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... 17 18 >
Go to page...
Previous Topic
View All Topics Index
Next Topic

Tweet

Preview

Moderator:  Acumowchek, MacGizmo, Moderator, neil, Reboot 
Print Topic
Switch to Threaded Mode
Publications, Articles and Industry Discussion
   »MacTech/MacNews Article Discussions
   »Apple World
Marketplace
   »Deals and Special Offers
      »Expired Offers
   »Trading Warehouse
Mac
   »Hardware
   »Software
   »Servers, Security, and Networking
   »Programming, Web Dev & Scripting
   »Windows and Virtualization
   »Cloud and Online Services
Mobile Technologies
   »iPhone Apps, AppStore, and iTunes
   »iPad, iPhone, iPod and Apple TV Hardware
Mods and Hacks
   »General Mods
      »Techniques
      »Miscellaneous
      »Mod Logs
   »Laptop Mods
      »Case Mods
      »Hardware Mods
      »Misc. Mods
   »Desktop Mods
      »Case Mods
      »Hardware Mods
      »Misc. Mods
   »Peripheral Mods
      »iPod Mods
      »Misc Mods
   »Software Hacks & Mods
General Discussion
   »Site Feedback & Issues
   »Stan's Lounge
   »Soapbox
Now Software Support
   »Announcements
   »Now X
      »FAQs
      »Discussion
   »Now Up-to-Date & Contact
      »Community Help
      »Tips and tricks
View profile
Send a PM
View homepage
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
View homepage
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
View homepage
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
Board Rules · Mark all read
Contact Us · AppleCentral · Top

MacTech Only Search:
Community Search:

 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
  • SPREAD THE WORD:
  • Slashdot
  • Digg
  • Del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • Newsvine
  • Generate a short URL for this page:



AppleCentral. www.applecentral.com
Main office: 805-494-9797
Xplain's use of MacNews, AppleCentral and AppleExpo are not affiliated with Apple, Inc. MacTech is a registered trademark of Xplain Corporation. AppleCentral, MacNews, Xplain, "The journal of Apple technology", Apple Expo, Explain It, MacDev, MacDev-1, THINK Reference, NetProfessional, MacTech Central, MacTech Domains, MacForge, and the MacTutorMan are trademarks or service marks of Xplain Corp. Sprocket is a registered trademark of eSprocket Corp. Other trademarks and copyrights appearing in this printing or software remain the property of their respective holders.
All contents are Copyright 1984-2010 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon.
Generated in 0.054 seconds in which 0.037 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Zlib compression enabled.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.5.8