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You are not logged in. [Log In] AppleCentral » Forums » General Discussion » Soapbox » Laugh a minute...
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#557704 - 05/13/11 02:44 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: keymaker]
DLC Online   content
I invented modding!

Registered: 11/04/02
Posts: 20167
Loc: Lindale, TX (Tyler)
KM, one of the SEAL teams included interrogators... so there was an option for capture. BUT the SEALs thought he was tring to reach a weapon or something. NO ONE in the world can say it's justified or not, except the 2 SEALs in the room ! One would have to witness the incident to make ANY call. This is like trying to call a play in baseball or football or soccer match without even watching the game...

Any other activity is just "mental mastrubation"!
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#557705 - 05/13/11 02:55 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: katlpablo]
six_of_one Offline
Pool Bar

Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 4474
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Quote:
Based on that he's dead .

Given that you apparently don't believe anything the government says about this, how do you know he's even dead? ;-)


Quote:
If they had wanted him alive, alive he would be.

Perhaps. I think it's pretty obvious, though, that they weren't willing to accept casualties to the SEALs in the name of getting bin Laden alive. Since there's no complete, detailed narrative currently available to the public, it's mere speculation at this point wether Osama was deer-in-the-headlights when they finally got to him or, say, reaching for a bomb.

One thing he didn't do, apparently, is throw up his hands and surrender, which I'm guessing is pretty much the only scenario that held a chance of bin Laden coming out alive.

But again, pretty much all speculation since none of us knows the details of what actually happened ...

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#557706 - 05/13/11 02:56 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: DLC]
keymaker Offline


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 6026
Quote:
the SEALs thought he was tring to reach a weapon or something.

That's what's been said but we don't know whether it's true. There'd never be a single criminal prosecution if we started with the assumption that what the suspect says is true.

Quote:
NO ONE in the world can say it's justified or not, except the 2 SEALs

No that's wrong - the question whether someone is guilty of an offence is never entrusted to the suspect but to a duly constituted court.

km


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#557707 - 05/13/11 03:04 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: katlpablo]
six_of_one Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 4474
Loc: Alexandria, VA
A reply to Mr. Chomsky's reaction ...

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#557708 - 05/13/11 03:15 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: keymaker]
six_of_one Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 4474
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Quote:
Holder has misunderstood the law - the test for self defence as a defence to murder is not whether surrender by the victim was "offered" but whether shooting him in the head was in excess of reasonable force.

Rather than misunderstanding the law I think that Mr.Holder merely holds the opinion that given the threat bin Laden had proven himself to be to the United States, shooting him wasn't an excessive use of force.

I gather you disagree, but that doesn't mean Mr. Holder misunderstands the law =)

That, and his legal justification isn't based on the offering or not of surrender but that "international law allows the targeting of enemy commanders."


Edited by six_of_one (05/13/11 03:19 PM)

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#557715 - 05/13/11 03:42 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: six_of_one]
keymaker Offline


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 6026
Quote:
Rather than misunderstanding the law I think that Mr.Holder merely holds the opinion that given the threat bin Laden had proven himself to be to the United States, shooting him wasn't an excessive use of force.

Merely holds the opinion? He either misunderstands the law or is misstating it. The question whether the soldiers used excessive force is determined by reference to the situation they were in when they shot him dead - not whether the victim had posed a threat to someone else before they got there. Sending planes over to New York with specially trained crew is not the same as standing bearded and unarmed in a concrete compound surrounded by soldiers. Holder misunderstands the law if he believes that a victim's willingness to surrender in that situation determines the response permitted by those soldiers - and unfortunately for him that's what he implied.

km

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#557718 - 05/13/11 03:52 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: keymaker]
NucleusG4 Offline
Master•Blaster

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 12486
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Which point? That he was, possibly, unjustly murdered.. or a court to decide if he was guilty of terrorism?
_________________________
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#557722 - 05/13/11 04:00 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: six_of_one]
katlpablo Offline
aguakatle

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 684
Loc: borikén·Aẏtiyas AbyaYala...
Originally Posted By: six_of_one
Perhaps. I think it's pretty obvious, though, that they weren't willing to accept casualties to the SEALs in the name of getting bin Laden alive. Since there's no complete, detailed narrative currently available to the public, it's mere speculation at this point wether Osama was deer-in-the-headlights when they finally got to him or, say, reaching for a bomb.
True. I agree. However, a bomb within reach or in any other way has not been mentioned.

Originally Posted By: six_of_one
One thing he didn't do, apparently, is throw up his hands and surrender, which I'm guessing is pretty much the only scenario that held a chance of bin Laden coming out alive.
You could be right. He could even have had his hands behind his back when the commandos appeared.

Originally Posted By: six_of_one
But again, pretty much all speculation since none of us knows the details of what actually happened ...
That is true. As you say, this is all speculation.


I'm just pointing out that he should have been taken alive. I can't accept any of the justifications given up to now for not taking him alive, and i suspect foul play.

What i see here, as i wrote before, is (IMO) the wrongful death of a valuable prisoner that should have faced trial in front of the World.
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DSA—DSGB
 »[VIDEO]»

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#557723 - 05/13/11 04:07 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: NucleusG4]
keymaker Offline


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 6026
Quote:
Which point? That he was, possibly, unjustly murdered.. or a court to decide if he was guilty of terrorism?

Well, a dead person cannot be put on trial so I'm arguing for the prosecution of persons still alive who are suspected of murder.

km

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#557724 - 05/13/11 04:10 PM Re: Laugh a minute... [Re: NucleusG4]
katlpablo Offline
aguakatle

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 684
Loc: borikén·Aẏtiyas AbyaYala...
I'm simply positing that this mission was successful as planned.
_________________________

DSA—DSGB
 »[VIDEO]»

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