Yet I note your latest response is a good deal more tempered than the two which preceded it ... that much I can be thankful for.

I don't know that we can equate homosexuality with abortion or race. Not being of a particular race, gender or orientation shouldn't necessarily bar each of us from casting a vote on various issues - whether we 'have a dog in the race' or not (curious phrase when we're talking about women's bodies or people's skin colour).

Discussion/Debate is good, Co-Opting an issue
in order to use it as a platform from which to
launch attacks on those we disagree with is not.

CyberBullying

Well, this is not television but it is our "hallowed" space.
Why would you think you know what is absolutely right or wrong?
Of course we take sides, we "the people" believe what we believe. However, that does not dismiss discourse, in fact, this forum encourages you to tell me what you think. That is what I want.

And for your information, we all have a dog in this race; it is called the human race.

This reminds me o the arguments I would overhear while driving around with my older sisters in 1968. My sister's friend said that President Johnson had a reason for staying in Viet Nam. He had experts who could tell him and secret intelligence.

But she was wrong. And Bush was wrong about WMD. The experts did not know squat. And everything in between. We abdicate our responsibility to be an informed electorate and we get screwed.

Do we have to be gay and in the military to make an informed decision about Don't Ask Don't Tell? Do we have to be a tax lawyer to decide that taxes are bad if they are screwing us (middle class) or good if they are used for useful projects, (Cure cancer , build highways?) Do we have to be a woman to know the ramifications of making abortions illegal (back alley abortions)?

The list goes on and on. This idea that Johnson's and Nixon's supporters used back then is just as evil now as it ever was. Don't think. Do not figure it out. There are experts and people more involved that should make those decisions for you.

Thank you but no, I prefer to stay informed, to form opinions, to discuss them on a forum like this and change my opinion, and to not be lead around by the nose by experts.

Sure there are rabid voices both left and right in a forum like this. I think it is a great way to take the temperature of the nation. But there are also a lot more voices in the spectrum here that I value. I like to listen to the entire cacophony.

All god's children got a place in the choir ...

Yep, I guarantee anyone in the military who opposes gays serving would drop that position in a heartbeat if a gay was the only one standing between them and a bullet.

Well.. now that we're discussing instead of yelling
can I ask an honest question?

Never been in the service, nor in an open barracks,
Is the objection simply KNOWING someone's gay?
..or is it objecting to the 2 guys in the next cot
going at it and you being stuck having to deal
with whatever feelings you have about it?

Being trapped in a situation from which there's
no escape, nor authority that you can turn to?

As far as I'm concerned, a forum where the participants are too genteel to have a lively discussion is a deadly dull forum where taking the temperature of its members is a difficult - no, pointless - exercise. I would rather people rant than hold their tongue. I can always walk away if I find someone's arguments ridiculous, or if they decide they wish to ignore me or even berate me. I can choose to fight back or to take a high road or to just shut up... and like any of us, my own choices in that regard are often rash.

But to have an artificially antiseptic place where no discussion of weighty current events is encouraged - well, that would suck.

I vote for the continued harmony of discord. Gizmo is welcome any time to blast the blasters. It would not be a forum if we all agreed to symbolically hold hands and think nice thoughts of one another, 24/7.

For sure. You all start holding hands singing kumbaya and I really will be out the door and I will be taking my ball too.

Break out into choruses of "We Are the World." Right-o.

Gimmeeabrake!

There's a vast difference between the kumaya/cream-o-wheat
in the Lounge and "THE THREADS THAT WOULDN'T DIE!"

Isn't it possible to have SOMETHING SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN?