Well, this is the kind of stuff that's happening in this exciting field. Didn't somebody say Bush is still an idiot? This is just more proof of that.
60 Minutes video, not good for dial up

He didn't want any more new embryonic stem cell research, adult was fine. I don't agree with him but I just thought I'd set the record straight.

It appears that the stem cells for the 60 mintues clip came from adults and the patients, which Bush was okay with. None of that has anything to do with the embryonic cells Bush was against using. Adult stem cells have produced therapies, but embryonic stem cells haven't.

ECM is pretty neat stuff, never heard of it, thanks for the info, thats encouraging for mankind, huh?

Embryonic stem cell research can't he justified purely on grounds that it can bestow some benefit upon individuals. Since it requires the destruction of human embryos this kind of work is considered by many to be unethical. The embryos destroyed are usually a by product of the IVF industry which is highly questionable in itself because it involves the diversion of resources away from medical need to lifestyle-type priorities having in some instances horrific consequences for the mothers and children involved.

km

Define embryos.

many came from blastocytes... 128 cell mass ... hardly an embryo.

Some came from fertility clinics where they were being discarded any way.. oh but don't shut the fertility clinics down - they make too much $$. Many of the arguments were 100% hypocrisy.

1000s of these are discarded each year... may be 10,000s... so where the outcry there ?

DLC, I don't see any problem with using those that come from fertility clinics for sure. Just for clarification, do you know where the other kind of embryos would come from? I don't. Abortions? If not abortions, where?

Unborn offspring.


no, shut them down as well.

The time has come for man to resign itself to nature in a dignified way instead of thrashing around with one experiment after another to defy it, particularly when overpopulation of the planet poses such a threat to the species.

km

Hm. . . let nature have its way . . .

No damns!

No medicine.

No hospitals -- let nature have its way.

No transplants of organs -- nature's way is okay . . .

No cesarean births! Dig a hole and squat -- have a baby or die!

Do not remove ragwort from pastures -- cows/nature live or die.

I could go on, but I have more posts to read.

Prostate cancer -- obviously do not treat. Let nature do her best.


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The Bard, or one of his characters anyways, says it best: "There is no art [or science] but Nature makes that art."

Doesn't mean that we all can't then think about and judge the ethical consequences of the art. But to say we can't do something because it's "unnatural" . . . a little silly, IMHO. Methinks it equally silly to attribute ethical purity to things that are considered "natural" because they don't bear the mark of human intervention.

There are good dams and bad dams, ethical medicine and unethical... and so on.

km

[This is a sort of Confession -- Forum, hear my prayers . . .]

Yo, that brought tears to my eyes. I read it, re-read it, and read it again and again.

I cannot grasp the meaning of what you said, thus for a quick moment a leaky eyeball. I wish I could. I use to wish I could when I was in high school. I had to re-read and consider things so long that the class was usually three days ahead of my thinking.

Then I realized, different persons have different IQ's. Of course I was in Business School and over 40 years old before I realized I was not stupid. It was really comforting to me and liberating to know that sometimes, no matter how hard I try -- some things may be beyond my grasp. It happens a lot in this forum

But I found that almost any subject adults are thinking about, I could find something in the children's section of the library which would explain the gist of things in simpler language. That's where I learned a lot of neat stuff.

Some channels on TV such as History Channel, A&E, Discovery, Smithsonian, etc. are good for me. They may have highly educated words, BUT they have pictures too. That is the kind of person I am. One who gets more understanding from pictures rather from words. I did my book reports in HS from Classic Comic Books.

I'm not asking you to elaborate on your post. I just think some of the things you say are very poetic and even if I do not understand, I like to read them.

Kate

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