Power in the Catholic church is a male thing secret society.
Pope [Papa in Spanish] is father. You can't have a woman be The Father or Pope.
There is even a chair in the Vatican (i read or saw somewhere) where in past times the newly elected Pope would have to sit and have a designated person from the Vatican "manually" confirm the 'maleness' of this newly elected Pope. God forbid The Father ever be a woman.
You can imagine why the power structure in the Church would dislike very much a very butch lesbian.
Priests have to be males and celibate. There is no place for women or marriage. If it weren't so the Church couldn't have become what it is today.
It's not the women's fault. It's that if the priests had children they would have to feed them, clothe them, educate them, love them more that they love the Church, leave them something after dying… and all that costs money multiplied by the number of kids. If there is a wife then it costs even more.
The Catholic Church, if you want to be married, will reject you, it won't give you the franchise. Those franchises have the purpose of making money for the priests high up the Church's 'Pyramid Scheme'. Some stupid "basic" priest attending his church can't go around happily spending the taxes due to the Pope and the Church in Rome! He can't give the Church's land to his own kids. He can't build a private army and keep the Church's goods; he'd be burned at the stake. The Catholic Church accumulates capital and so is rich, it doesn't divide it's riches among the people, family or not.
Women are not allowed any power in the Catholic Church structure. They are simply out. It's a patriarchal thing and women are not it.
If women were allowed to be priests there could be big problems for the Church. Imagine that women become priests, they'll later be escalating the Pyramid, higher, higher, richer, richer, providing they don't get pregnant; the church cannot wait for women to give birth, for children to grow up and spend the Church's resources.
So if women finally arrive at The Vatican and they are equals with the same powers as men of their same status in all and each of the different levels of power, the rich and powerful men and women having both the same arrogance and desires, the workers weak and poor, women and men, having the same desires and the same ignorance and dependence on the church… Can you imagine what would go on behind those closed doors in the luxurious palaces between cups of fine wines and gourmet roasts? What in the private sessions and conclaves, in the kitchens, in the laundry rooms and in the gardens? How long would discipline be maintained? How long will it take for lesser priests to abandon that ruling group and stop paying their church contributions and doing their church duties? How long for the Pope to lose his command? All these men and women could definitively dilapidate 2000 years of capital accumulation in one or two of their own generations, and probably bury marriage and family too.
Well, i'm not completely sure but, i think that's how the Catholic Church basically played and plays it's game. There have been times —like in the renaissance— when Popes had children and armies either brought with them when they became Pope or acquired wile being Pope.
The 'Dune' solution is that females have their own matriarchal religious secret society that coexists with the male patriarchal religious secret society.
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Well, effectively, the declining Mother Church will eventually just the opiate of the poor, but the way the game is played, it's a zero sum business model, so eventually Rome will be neutered and powerless.
Catholics and Jews in my youth were quite different from today. They were very socially radical and militant, in selective ways. Of course, there was the homophobia, anti-abortion, birth control, etc (although most practicing White Catholics never actually practiced that stuff, despite espousing it), but in other social issues, Catholics and Jews fomented much revolution. This, of course, is no longer the case - Generally, Catholics and Jews are oppressively conservative and cowtow the status quo.
As I see it, the key problem with the hotspots of the world is the legal disenfranchisement of the major economic class. The major economic class, the one that makes everything work, is an extralegal class. In developing countries, for example, they operate 75 percent of the pupblic transoportation. This is a vital, vibrant, functional class with their own rules and governance, yet zero legality or rights; with no means of legally owning anything, paying official taxes, leveraging (their ghost) assets, borrowing, etc, etc. They comprise the major economic populace of any developing country, the major economic engine (that is totally neutered), but until they get some kind of legal enfranchisement, something to build upon, these countries will never get beyond what they are today, no matter how much money is thrown and misspent upon them. People ar emore alike than they are different, the world over, and all just want to have a life. When all can build a life, all is muc better.
Personally, I would prefer to just slaughter the ruling class of these countries and shake stuff out from there, but there's better ways of handling this. Yet, today's Catholics and Jews will never be a part of any solution - They and their kind are much of the abetting problem through braindead rubberstamping of a twisted status quo (well, not to single out Catholics and Jews, as this is a problem of the braindead class/species/whomever/politicians/U.N./whomever).
So, a declincing Mother Chruch is terminally wedded to death to impoverished countries that will never achieve economic sustainability.
Maureen Dowd's nun's story confirms in some part what i commented before in this thread.
Nuns were second-class citizens then and — 40 years after feminism utterly changed America — they still are. The matter of women as priests is closed, a forbidden topic.
In 2004, the cardinal who would become Pope Benedict XVI wrote a Vatican document urging women to be submissive partners, resisting any adversarial roles with men and cultivating “feminine values” like “listening, welcoming, humility, faithfulness, praise and waiting.”
Women are to be submissive to their masters (they “belong” to their husbands or their church) and are to cultivate “feminine” values. That is why, it seems to me that, the Catholic Church's powerful abhor female homosexuality even more than male homosexuality which, at times, they appear to tolerate among themselves.
Many kinds of assertive women were perceived as a true menace and competition against the church; they were in the past treated as witches and at times disposed of in horrific ways…
Assertive, self reliant women represent power and traditional (ancient) matriarchal arts and knowledge that the patriarchal Catholic Church can't control nor participate in.
Islam too —apparently— has had similar attitudes in the past and still has them today.
There is also … that side of the Christian faith that has to do with the Virgin Mary, mother of Christ, who within the Catholic church has a devout following among men and also women. She is piously revered —something that doesn't happen in the Protestant Churches, i believe— and associated with the Holy Spirit. Her figure, i suppose, must have to do with the virtues of motherhood, nurture, patience, fidelity, suffering, resilience, hope, etc..
Originally Posted By: polymerase
Her description of nuns and this Pope's view of them is mirrored in his decision to allow the right wing women and gay hating anglicans into the Catholic Church.
While I agree with most of what you say in regards to the Catholic leadership, I don't see how Dowd's article "confirms" anything. It merely agrees with you. There is a big difference, especially when you are throwing around characterizations of the church as a whole.
Most American Catholics are very different than the inquisition in Rome knows. I have serious doubts that many Anglicans will cross over. Afterall, those that are so closed off to the world to be motivated to change denominations out of disdain for women and gays probably also have some pretty unsavory views of them Papists as well.
Your post confirms that the Pope is a douchebag for trying to pull in the right wing, women hating, gay hating, Anglicans and Dowd's article reconfirms it by also pointing out the collateral damage that the Pope's new stance takes on the American Catholic Church, the nuns specifically.
Actually, I guess it is not that specific since the Pope treating the nun's self sacrifice as something that should be treated as dirt is well known and world wide. I think the nuns in Italy would get that message too. It is not just the American parochial schools which are running out of women to fill the nunnery.
You don't think Dowd's article is a perfect bookend to your post? Can nuns in your church become priests yet?
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