You've missed the point - if establishing a rapport works at least equally well there's no gain from torture.

km

OK you got me...

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my meaning... true sometimes you can get some limited information and rarely a big juicy one that does pay off in a major, but many more times the information is unreliable, there are cases where CIA and our guys went galavanting all around the globe and the information was a hoax. That's the point I was trying to make. More times than not the information is VERY questionable. SO IMHO the torture isn't worth the payoff, it's a poor bang for a lot of bucks and huge PR image loss. In addition, It aids your enemy in recruiting new blood...

I heard on CNN they found out some info about Al Quada's organizational structure... maybe it helps but I don't see where this was a major breakthrough after 180+ water boardings.
I just think this type of interrogation is over the line. Even McCain thinks so... but the henious thing to me is Bush & Cheney lying about it all and letting foot soldiers take a fall for following their orders !! Sorry that's the kind of schitt the Nazis did... I don't want my country to have ANY policy anywhere near that kind of action. In addition, why weren't many of these "suspects" brought to a tribunal for a hearing ? That's also UnAmerican to me. Don't gimme the enemy combatant schitt.. these are human beings FIRST, and should be treated like we'd like our own treated. HUMANELY ! IF proven guilty then give them what they deserve, but don't just capture them and sit on them for years and never bring a shred of evidence forward they're guilty (or not). IF you have the evidence - present it !

None of it justifies the means. And Cheney declaring that they obtained good intelligence - let me present WMD in Iraq and yellow cake in Niger. Cheney couldn't tell good intelligence from bad. In Cheney's twisted mind, good intelligence is only what he wants to hear.

Um ... nokay. Still missing your point, I guess.

I made many points so I am not sure which one your missing ?

HuH ?
There is no gain from getting information from torture due to a person under duress . I would tell you anything you want to hear , the information you get would be highly skeptical under torture

See carp, KM does to language exactly what the legal eagles at Justice did. If you think what he does is illegitimate in any but the most legalistic of terms, the same is true for the Justice Dept.'s redefinition of practices long known to be torture.

True



True - click on the CNN link above



True - Well not sure about the yellow cake but Saddam did use WMDs - Anyway Iraq did have WMDs and did use them at one time , its a no brainer



True

Hey your batting a 100

Right YoYo

We have the truth , they have their interpretations

Right, you would have to have no brain in order to believe that still. <--get it? LOL ;-)


Kurds were gassed by our WMD we gave to Saddam in what decade? Right, more than ten years before Bush became President.

The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Do we still bring it up today like a parrot?