six_of_one
Pool Bar
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 4093
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Quote:
We all know that Enhanced Interrogation = torture but like I said they worded it in such a way to make it seem legal , what we have here is a wording dilemma
So what on earth is your point?
Illegal acts were committed but those who authorized them used language to make them seem legal? And? Still doesn't make them legal. Nor does that exonerate those who either authorized those acts nor those who actually carried them out.
You're right: I'm still "missing" your entire point, I guess ...
Quote:
went looking for your so called link to international law that specifically says water boarding is torture ?
First of all, I never mentioned waterboarding specifically, but since it took all of three seconds to find a wiki link (since that seems to carry weight with you) here you go:
So called link Wiki has on Waterboarding ... it's the first hit on a google search for "waterboarding defined as torture." First six words in the citation: "Waterboarding is a form of torture."
wazzat? ...like calling it "alleged torture" in an attempt to disqualify it, even in the face of hundreds of documents condemning it as having been exactly that?
wot a twist! to be suddenly pinning it ALL on the past "badministration" even in the face of evidence proving from whence the template for the techniques originated?
Looking back, who better would've known the effectiveness of such things as using sexual contact by female guards upon Muslim men, to the point of causing them to prefer suicide rather to ever facing their family again, or of the Muslim absolute terror of dogs, or of the unbearable humiliation of being treated as if they were dogs. Now bleating for "justice" or "revenge" is just too weird. REDUNDANTLY I reiterate: be careful what you wish for, ...or of erecting gallows intended for someone else.
_________________________ . "...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"
steveg
Making a new reply.
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 26720
Loc: D'OHio
And this is what I really appreciate about this guy... He considers, he speaks, he listens, he re-considers, he sets ego and swagger aside and modifies his POV if appropriate. Some might call that flip-flopping, or pandering, or even weakness. I call it open-minded and flexible. I still wish had had adopted this position from the git-go, but IMHO, better late than never. If Bush was The Decider Obama is The Listener. And if you're not listening, you're not making the best possible decisions.
A major part of the listening is his other moniker, "No Drama Obama." He doesn't announce decisions for the sake of a big splash. He makes decisions which in the long run are best for the country.
Hard to get used to but I am getting there. He knew it would be better if the DOJ leads the investigation. Better to also treat the DOJ as a separate entity and not like another department of the White House. He also believes it better if a nonpartisan congressional investigation is begun. If Republicans want to remain above water they better start acting like nonpartisans who want what is best for the country and stop listening to Karl Rove pouting, "THESE TORTURE TECHNIQUES ARE NOW RUINED!"
I want Cheney in Leavenworth today. I now realize the rule of law will require a long drawn out process. I am now OK with that.
#425288 - 04/22/0905:59 AMRe: Three cheers for torture!
[Re: DLC]
Jim_ Number 9
Registered: 04/21/02
Posts: 12532
Loc: Columbus OH
Originally Posted By: DLC
Matt, there is not ONE shred of evidence that all this torture saved ONE single attack on us...
Only one that believes that is Dick Cheney ( and a few other misled) ... the justification is all hypotheticals, "bait and switch", and "smoke and mirrors" !!
Even John McCain is dead set against it - he KNOWS it doesn't help us or serve our needs ..
Jim_ Number 9
Registered: 04/21/02
Posts: 12532
Loc: Columbus OH
Originally Posted By: steveg
And this is what I really appreciate about this guy... He considers, he speaks, he listens, he re-considers, he sets ego and swagger aside and modifies his POV if appropriate. Some might call that flip-flopping, or pandering, or even weakness. I call it open-minded and flexible. I still wish had had adopted this position from the git-go, but IMHO, better late than never. If Bush was The Decider Obama is The Listener. And if you're not listening, you're not making the best possible decisions.
He needs to be more than an un-Bush. Just listening isn't good enough. Here's a pretty good synopsis of what a productive listener needs to be.
Good article. It very much underlines Obama's strategy here of not just playing to the crowd who wants him to be "UnBush". His economy of decisions, what I would have once thought as inaction, is him not just being UnBush but of his taking the most pragmatic path.
I was annoyed by his slow and plodding path on torture. I wanted him to unbush the government with a straight razor and hang the scoundrels. I can see now that his more thoughtful approach is the best path.
Good to have people like him advising the new president. I posted an interview by a like-minded chap who is also a new adviser with a new approach, to our new president.
It's hopeful to have hands-on people driven by listening, deciding, then taking appropriate action, rather than the reactionary "bull in a china-shop"/"let the chips fall where they may"/"Fukkem if they don't like it" approach the World has come to EXPECT of America.
_________________________ . "...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"
A major part of the listening is his other moniker, "No Drama Obama." He doesn't announce decisions for the sake of a big splash. He makes decisions which in the long run are best for the country.
Hard to get used to but I am getting there. He knew it would be better if the DOJ leads the investigation. Better to also treat the DOJ as a separate entity and not like another department of the White House. He also believes it better if a nonpartisan congressional investigation is begun. If Republicans want to remain above water they better start acting like nonpartisans who want what is best for the country and stop listening to Karl Rove pouting, "THESE TORTURE TECHNIQUES ARE NOW RUINED!"
I want Cheney in Leavenworth today. I now realize the rule of law will require a long drawn out process. I am now OK with that.
"Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small; Though with patience He stands waiting, with exactness grinds He all."
_________________________ . "...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"
I am just fscking sick of the Bush Administration LIES and lack of any resemblance to following Laws! Nothing they told was was anywhere near the truth!!
Sí, sí, y…
… now it turns out there where other memos about the legality of the torture plans which gave a different opinion than that of the DoJ. These were ignored and later were attempted destroyed by the WH…
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