There's no justification for breaking International Law ("unless its for humiliation" ) to strike any nation on the hunch that they MAY attack you at some time in the future. There's a reason that that Law exists; Like the Geneva Convention, It PROTECTS nations from destroying each other for Fun and/or Profit.
Otherwise we'd be at risk from any group of nations that take it into their head to ATTACK US(A) simply because we've shown ourself to be a bully (A DANGER to World Peace.) If the RECENT WAR CRIMES Are allowed to go unaddressed, we lose more than just "FACE", we lose the International Protection of the International AGREEMENT Against Attacking Other Countries, simply because WE CAN.
You read to much into it - ghees I thought I was clear , maybe I need to revert back to baby talk ? ?
Humiliation would be the only reason to torture these days <-- I NEVER said its was legal and were did you read that ? ?
Otherwise we'd be at risk from any group of nations that take it into their head to ATTACK US
We were attacked maybe you forgot its called 911 ??
simply because we've shown ourself to be a bully (A DANGER to World Peace.)[/quote]
Maybe because the UN and SEC does absolutely nothing - what are they doing with this "piracy" thats been going on for years ? ? absolutely nothing . We already discussed that the UN and SEC has no means to enforce and then relies on member nations to be the enforcer , The US gets charged for being a bully is that what your saying ? ?
[quote]If the RECENT WAR CRIMES Are allowed to go unaddressed, we lose more than just "FACE",
Its called invading Afghanistan to get the criminal Osama - Iraq well that was stupid - what other WAR crime are you talking about ?
we lose the International Protection of the International AGREEMENT Against Attacking Other Countries, simply because WE CAN.
What protection ? ? Were was that protection for South Korea ? South Vietnam ? New York 911 ? Tibet ? and on and on and on . Even Somalia has been invaded by Muslims who set up Sharia Law , wheres that international protection ? ?
I guess the US could intervene but you know what ? people will say we are the bullies because they are the ones committing the crimes and the ones that what the US help are the victims with no voices .
It is for me. This was at the approximate midpoint between the day of the attacks and today. Four years after, and four years since. I still remember the day as if it just happened. Still remember the fear and confusion. Still remember the anger. Still want those responsible brought to justice in a "dead of alive" kind of way. Those memories and emotions are real and valid and painful despite what a certain "barrister" wants to think — not that it matters a whit to me.
But now, I'm totally ashamed of how the U.S. conducted itself under the Bush badministration. It took me a while to get past the anger. And at this point, I would be just as happy to see those schmucks prosecuted right alongside Bin Laden. And what's frustrating is that we know where they are. No need to bomb whole mountain ranges to dust to locate them. Just send the agents to the 18th hole with the warrants and the cuffs.
I still remember the day as if it just happened. Still remember the fear and confusion. Still remember the anger. Still want those responsible brought to justice in a "dead of alive" kind of way..
I've pointed out to you before that when the twin towers of Lebanon were bombed with US arms and backing in 1982 exactly the same kind of pain and loss of life was occasioned as that which you keep moaning about over 9/11. The events are equally reprehensible. The only difference between the two is that one caused the other which makes that one, if anything, even more blameworthy.
Does anyone not see what is going on? By continuing the arguments over "whether or not this was torture", the people who actually put the whole program in place get to sit on the sidelines and smirk at the parsing of words. Doesn't the military have a guidebook as well as the Geneva Convention that defines the limits?
I think this is why President Obama just put the memos out there. All of you who are proud to be a part of any of it should just enjoy the reading. If the middle-class (I think most everyone here fits that description) is only going to argue the definition, and most of you are splitting hairs (Bill Clinton anyone?), and nothing else then, why should he try anything more?
I say again what he is looking for is what the ordinary citizen will do about the tone of the report and what it said about our leaders rather than what defines what these detainees were put through. I am not apologizing for any of them, I am sure that there are bad guys of the first order there, but does two wrongs make a right?
I have cancer, it is terminal, I would not seriously wish this disease on my worst enemy, including all those who wish harm to to my country. I cannot condone any part of this by the elected leaders of my country and have already expressed my feelings to my Congressional leaders.
It rips away the blinders. One is no longer able to hide behind "Plausible Deniable" You are being forced to confront that which we were content to leave up to others, and make necessary decisions for the way things go forward from here on end.
It's like being totally divorced from murdering our fellow beings on Earth, simply because our meat is now purchased neatly wrapped in sterile packages.
It's reminiscent of dragging the German people through the interment & death camps so they could see the palpable reality to what they (perhaps) conveniently chose not to see or think about while entire families were disappearing from under their very noses all around them.
Having ones nose rubbed in it can indeed be quite instructive.
The question, as you say, is what we now choose to do about it. ...Not just GITMO, but also Palestine. Not just the Pirates, but what's driving them to this desperate act. We can stay mired in denial, or join with the Jews in saying "NEVER AGAIN!" (But not just for our own community... for all of mankind.)
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