Yep, yep (to carp and padma). As I have probably said before, I am a white guy in a very predominantly "yellow" society. I am seen as a white guy before anything else. It "colors" everything I do here. Ironically, there is a Japanese proverb that says, "10 people, 10 colors" but it is never applied to non-Japanese, who are too often seen as "all alike". I however, know that I catch myself harboring many prejudices and preconceptions about Japanese people (the majority) that I have to constantly remind myself are often untrue in individual cases. For the first time, I began to wonder if they are prejudices/preconceptions that gay people hold of straight people (?) I have never noticed any such "reverse" preconceptions among my gay friends, but the question intrigues me..

I think it goes both ways, Ianovami. Prejudice is an equal-opportunity thing. I think gays hold some equally funny, lazily sterotypical and outright erroneous ideas about "breeders."

In short, I think this kind of thing is definitely 'cross platform.'

I don't think I ever argued against gay pride parades so much as invited explanations for them. What you describe as the counter argument was in fact my argument that since a person's sexuality is an irrelevance the only obsession on parade is that of those attending them.

km

The point (or at least my point) is that the obsession is on both sides for mutually influencing reasons, resulting in parades of pride etc. Anyway this has been covered.

And having already discounted (for myself at least) any theories of upbringing leading to homosexuality, I am more interested now in what are perceived preconceptions of (some) gay people in regards to straight people (beyond assuming "straights" or "breeders" as VB said are prejudiced against them.)

Dr Harren effectively ruled that out when she said "the research does not show that at all".

km

Bigoted about what?


Deal with what?

km

Dr. Harren effectively ruled it out for you, you mean. Thankfully the doc is but one of millions in the world and her "findings" may safely be taken with a grain of salt.

But go ahead - bang that gavel, dewd! Sounds like a Marc Bolan tune.

Whose? I have seen a lot of research that has said the opposite. And have you lived, have you met people, from childhood, who obviously were skewed one way or the other from since you knew them? Have you lived?

I still remember going to the pool every summer when I was kid, and even though I knew men and women were supposed to have this "attraction" to each other's bodies, not feeling anything of the sort. Then, one summer I went to the pool and there were all these women's bodies in swimsuits that did "something" for me that had not been there the summer before, and even then, at that age, I knew that some biological switch inside my brain had switched. Some kind lack of parenting could have led that switch one way or the other? I don't buy it.

I've always played for both teams (as my half-sister puts it). When it comes down to it, I don't 'fancy men and women', I fancy particular individuals, and they happen to be available in two styles (or a blend these days). It's been interesting for me joining a LGBT choir recently - I was curious to see how the attraction thing might rear its head. So far, I'm aware of 2 men and 3 women that I find attractive, out of around 45. Only the conductor is attractive enough to me to be distracting, and that just means my timing is impeccable!

As to prejudice/preconceptions, it's not a two-way thing, it's an every-way thing - everyone does it. In a positive sense, it's part of our survival mechanism to assess newcomers and new situations for potential threat. But it's also something to be aware of in yourself and to step beyond. Back in the late 80's and 90's when I was first 'coming out', I experienced a lot of prejudice towards bisexuals, and more so from the gay end of the spectrum than from the straight. It seems that part of having a strong sense of group identity is maintaining a strong sense of who is in the outside-group, and a lot of gay folk certainly used to find bisexuality threatening. I got told all the time I was 'sitting on the fence' and should face up to the fact I was really <insert gender/agenda HERE>.

Oh: and I, my brother, and my half-sister are all bisexual. What we have in common is our father's genes, and our father's behaviour. Take your pick.

You know in the Batman incarnation written by Frank Miller (the guy who also wrote Sin City and 300) written in the mid-80s (and called Dark Knight now that I think of it) Batman's sidekick Robin was a girl. .

But seriously, I appreciate your candidness. I certainly asked the right person when I wondered aloud about "reverse" prejudices.

From years ago, I had always had a pet theory about bisexuality. I have lots of pet theories, not just about sexuality, I assure you. But, anyway, this pet theory came from friends and celebrities I had observed who thought themselves to be bisexual, and certainly lived a bisexual "identity" but then eventually, at some point, went to one sex or the other exclusively. In my mind, they may have been open-minded about both sexes, but deep down inside they were truly attracted to either one or the other. The most obvious example I can think of is Elton John who was bisexual for years, but now claims, "I'm not anymore". This is of course a theory I clung to with no particular vehemence, and recently I have heard or met a number of people (yourself now included) that have shattered this theory. As you said, people, as individuals don't really fit so neatly into categories.

Well, it might be a while before we see if this thread goes anywhere else, "who's online" tells me it's just me and the Brits online right now..