• AppleCentral Network:
  • Tech Support
  • |
  • Open Source
  • |
  • Apple News
  • |
  • Register Domains
  • |
  • SSL Certificates
  • |
  • iPod Deals
  • |
  • Mac Deals
  • |
  • Mac Book Shelf
  • AppleCentral Home
  • MacTech Magazine
    • About MacTech in Print
    • Issue Table of Contents
    • Subscribe
    • Risk Free Sample
    • Back Issues
    • MacTech DVD
    • MacTech Archives
    • MacTech Print Archives
    • MacMod
    • MacTutor
    • FrameWorks
    • develop
  • MacNews.com
    • MacNews News
    • Blog
    • MacTech Reviews and KoolTools
    • Whitepapers, Screencasts, Videos and Books
    • News Scanner
    • Rumors Scanner
    • Documentation Scanner
  • Apple Expo
    • by Category
    • by Company
    • by Product
  • MacForge.net
  • Job Board
  • Advertising
    • Benefits of MacTech
    • Mechanicals and Submission
    • Dates and Deadlines
    • Submit Apple Expo Entry
  • User
    • Register for Ongoing Raffles
    • Register new user
    • Edit User Settings
    • Logout
  • Contact
    • Customer Service
    • Webmaster Feedback
    • Submit News or PR
    • Suggest an article
  • Connect Tools
    • MacTech Live Podcast
    • RSS Feeds
    • Twitter
You are not logged in. [Log In] AppleCentral » Forums » General Discussion » Soapbox » KO on Prop 8
Register User    Forum List        Active Topics    FAQ
Page 8 of 13 < 1 2 ... 6 7 8 9 10 12 13 >
Go to page...
Topic Options
Hop to:
#396905 - 11/14/08 10:57 PM Re: KO on Prop 8 [Re: keymaker]
polymerase Offline


Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 11640
Originally Posted By: keymaker

I've already dealt with that argument by pointing out that you're contradicted by the European experience where gay groups campaigned for civil unions and achieved them. Discrimination is something that is FELT not some abstract concept that can be assigned to intelligent people who know what they want and are perfectly at ease with what they have.
km

Ah, but there is the difference pointed out a couple of times above. In the United States there would be a much different perceived difference between a civil union in the US and in Europe. In the US the perception and the reality is that a civil union alone without the word marriage would be very unequal.


Top
#396906 - 11/14/08 10:58 PM Re: KO on Prop 8 [Re: Leslie]
keymaker Offline


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 6026
Quote:
Quite the contrary. THAT is the way the world is; it is changing. Has nothing to do with me.

No, the way the world IS is shown in your list of countries compared to mine. You're assumption that there's a trend that will inevitably continue into the future is pure guesswork.

km

Top
#396908 - 11/14/08 11:01 PM Re: KO on Prop 8 [Re: polymerase]
keymaker Offline


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 6026
Quote:
In the US the perception and the reality is that a civil union alone without the word marriage would be very unequal.

That's not what they thought in California.

km

Top
#396910 - 11/14/08 11:06 PM Re: KO on Prop 8 [Re: keymaker]
Leslie Offline
Proud MacBabe. Happy everything to everybody.

Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 3603
Loc: B.C. Canada
Quote:
You're assumption that there's a trend that will inevitably continue into the future is pure guesswork.


I have no assumption at all. I am stating a fact. The world IS different now, with regard to same-sex marriage than a few years ago. No matter how you try, that cannot be dismissed. A trend- we shall see

Top
#396912 - 11/14/08 11:08 PM Re: KO on Prop 8 [Re: keymaker]
garyW Offline
mid-century modern

Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 8329
Quote:
That's not what they thought in California.


The State Court had ruled that same-sex marriage was permitted.
Proposition 8 struck that ruling and rewrote the State Constitution. That is not Judicial Review and is the reason it is already being challenged in the courts.

The Constitution protects citizen's civil rights so that the rights of a minority cannot be removed by a majority. The state courts, and maybe the US Supreme Court will need to rule to change the Constitution to remove civil rights.

_________________________



Top
#396918 - 11/14/08 11:16 PM Re: KO on Prop 8 [Re: keymaker]
polymerase Offline


Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 11640
Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
In the US the perception and the reality is that a civil union alone without the word marriage would be very unequal.

That's not what they thought in California.
km

I get to yell out BINGO!! That is why this thread exists. We are disconcerted that the people of California reversed their decision and made same sex marriages illegal again. We think the Mormon Church and possibly a small percentage of people in California took stupid pills on election day.

California leads the way normally in the United States. They may be a tad whacky but they push the envelope. Sadly, in this case they seemed to have goofed.



Top
#396921 - 11/14/08 11:17 PM Re: KO on Prop 8 [Re: keymaker]
H. Habilis Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 23
First of all, there are vast legal differences between Civil Unions and marriage. Property rights, tax benefits, inheritance rights, benefit sharing, shared citizenship for immigrant partners, you name it. Most importantly, Civil Unions are not recognized on a consistent level nationally. So the states are in no way separate but equal, which makes it discrimination.

As far as discrimination being just a feeling, that's just not true. Nor is it an abstract concept. It's something that actually happens to people and has concrete results. And if it happens to a gay couple (for example, a contested will or denial of medical benefits) and they have no legal recourse because their civil union isn't recognized, then they're back to being second-class citizens.

Top
#396922 - 11/14/08 11:18 PM Re: KO on Prop 8 [Re: garyW]
keymaker Offline


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 6026
Quote:
You listed those countries that do not permit same sex marriage, and I pointed out that there's a pretty severe reason why they do not.

All you did was pick out an unrepresentative minority of states from a very long list... the 'severe reason' why in Britain we don't allow same-sex marriage is that we dealt with discrimination by way of all party agreed solutions.

Quote:
But America is a democracy,

Yeah sure - most of the nations on my list are democracies except they have some clue about what the term means.

km

Top
#396927 - 11/14/08 11:23 PM Re: KO on Prop 8 [Re: keymaker]
Leslie Offline
Proud MacBabe. Happy everything to everybody.

Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 3603
Loc: B.C. Canada

Quote:
No, the way the world IS is shown in your list of countries compared to mine.


You have your own country?

Seriously, the world is not broken up into paradigms.
We are an entity.

Top
#396930 - 11/14/08 11:29 PM Re: KO on Prop 8 [Re: H. Habilis]
keymaker Offline


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 6026
Quote:
As far as discrimination being just a feeling, that's just not true. Nor is it an abstract concept. It's something that actually happens to people and has concrete results.

Okay, who's gonna phone up Sir Elton John and tell him he's mistaken... he THINKS he's not the victim of discrimination but really he is. smirk

km

Top
Page 8 of 13 < 1 2 ... 6 7 8 9 10 12 13 >
Go to page...
Previous Topic
View All Topics Index
Next Topic

Tweet

Preview

Moderator:  Acumowchek, MacGizmo, Moderator, neil, Reboot 
Print Topic
Switch to Threaded Mode
Publications, Articles and Industry Discussion
   »MacTech/MacNews Article Discussions
   »Apple World
Marketplace
   »Deals and Special Offers
      »Expired Offers
   »Trading Warehouse
Mac
   »Hardware
   »Software
   »Servers, Security, and Networking
   »Programming, Web Dev & Scripting
   »Windows and Virtualization
   »Cloud and Online Services
Mobile Technologies
   »iPhone Apps, AppStore, and iTunes
   »iPad, iPhone, iPod and Apple TV Hardware
Mods and Hacks
   »General Mods
      »Techniques
      »Miscellaneous
      »Mod Logs
   »Laptop Mods
      »Case Mods
      »Hardware Mods
      »Misc. Mods
   »Desktop Mods
      »Case Mods
      »Hardware Mods
      »Misc. Mods
   »Peripheral Mods
      »iPod Mods
      »Misc Mods
   »Software Hacks & Mods
General Discussion
   »Site Feedback & Issues
   »Stan's Lounge
   »Soapbox
Now Software Support
   »Announcements
   »Now X
      »FAQs
      »Discussion
   »Now Up-to-Date & Contact
      »Community Help
      »Tips and tricks
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
View profile
Send a PM
Add to your Watched Users
View posts
Board Rules · Mark all read
Contact Us · AppleCentral · Top

MacTech Only Search:
Community Search:

 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
  • SPREAD THE WORD:
  • Slashdot
  • Digg
  • Del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • Newsvine
  • Generate a short URL for this page:



AppleCentral. www.applecentral.com
Main office: 805-494-9797
Xplain's use of MacNews, AppleCentral and AppleExpo are not affiliated with Apple, Inc. MacTech is a registered trademark of Xplain Corporation. AppleCentral, MacNews, Xplain, "The journal of Apple technology", Apple Expo, Explain It, MacDev, MacDev-1, THINK Reference, NetProfessional, MacTech Central, MacTech Domains, MacForge, and the MacTutorMan are trademarks or service marks of Xplain Corp. Sprocket is a registered trademark of eSprocket Corp. Other trademarks and copyrights appearing in this printing or software remain the property of their respective holders.
All contents are Copyright 1984-2010 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon.
Generated in 0.034 seconds in which 0.021 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Zlib compression enabled.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.5.8