I don't know the answer.<br>I don't agree with the legal system's definition of insanity. <br>If the criminal is capable of distinguishing between right and wrong at the time the offense was committed then he is considered sane.<br>Was Jeffrey Dahmer sane? Was Ted Bundy sane? Was Charles Manson sane?<br>Where does rehabilitation come in? <br>How about a 13 year old who commits an absolutely horrendous crime. <br>Can't he be rehabilitated?<br>I think the problem is most people don't want the truly vicious criminals rehabilitated. They want them dead.<br><br>I don't agree with capital punishment. I could not vote to pull the switch.<br>On the other hand some of these people deserve to die but I won't be the one making that decision.<br>There are some people who are so evil that the details of their crimes are unspeakable.<br><br>I've been reading about schizophrenia. <br>Most schizophrenics are not violent. But they won't lead a normal life either.<br>Criminals who are schizophrenic normally have another mental disorder accompanying it such as paranoia. <br><br>I am very sorry to hear about your mother. That had to be very very hard.<br><br><br><br>
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
The problem with insane folks is how far their actions take them. Some never progress past the talking to the flowers stage. Others become violent. <br><br>I do realize mental health is a serious issue. I've been through serious depression myself. We have an obligation to protect society as a whole from those who's insanity drives them to criminal acts. Unfortunately, criminal justice these days is all about protecting the criminal and tough s*&#$^ for the victim(s). Enough is enough!!!!<br><br>There are two cases of nut cases in Toronto who were on the loose because our loonybin system sets them out on the street if they "seem" sane enough. It's been a revolving door with crimes committed, pronounced insane, spend a few months in a mental health institute then back on the street. <br><br>One case involves a fellow who hears voices telling him to stab the first person he sees. The psycho has done this 3 times. His last victim was a young woman minding her own business waiting for a bus. The nut came up behind her, reached around and stabbed her in the abdomen a few times. Police admit he will back on the street by year's end. Their hands are tied. It's the system.<br><br>The other case also involves a repeat mental case offender. He likes to push people off subway platforms.<br><br>I realize some folks can be helped through medication and everyone deserves that chance but when they become a repeat offender then it's time to lock 'em up and throw away the key. These people are zero loss to society.<br><br>
"So let me ask a question: if criminal culpability depends on intent and volition, how do we accommodate people who act on the basis of voices and visions . . . how should the legal system engage people who are insane? Should insanity simply be ignored? Should people who act on the basis of voices and visions, like my mother did, be held criminally responsible?"<br><br>Those are VERY tough questions! Answering them becomes all too subjective and far too serious for anyone who doesn't have a thorough knowledge of the human psyche. I tend to think perpetrators under mental or emotional duress "less guilty" than those of a clear mind. That's not to say automatic lenience is due, rather more involved and thorough investigation is needed to properly assess the correct course of action. In my opinion, mental illness is the toughest disease to treat and heal.<br><br>- alec -
As complicated and emotional an issue as it is, I still see a vast world of difference between this guy, and for example, Andrea Yates (our state laws don't). The psycho on the bus, I'd have no problem with the death penalty. I would have no doubt that his savage behavior would continue to be his norm. Yates, as horrendous as her crime was, it was contained in a very personal and self destructive arc. I would doubt seriously that it would happen again.<br><br>There are as many shades of grey here as there are facets to the human psyche. The judgements we make are linked to how destructive the damaged mind becomes. <br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:white]xx</font color=white>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>
_________________________ I always deserve it. Really.
Right Alec<br><br>Hard questions for sure but IMO the large problem is the phycology profession after all its medical science that is still being study - so best educated guess.<br><br>[color:blue]Should insanity simply be ignored?</font color=blue> yes and no<br>Most if not all violent crimes the killer always pleads some kind of insanity be it temporary insanity , drug induce insanity or insert your own insanity plea <-- now here comes a panel of Phycologist making their best guess on what they studied and what they don't Know.<br><br>The courts have a responsibility to prove if the killer knew "right from wrong" as we know for anyone to murder anybody for no reason they therefore must be insane <-- correct , like the killer on the bus. Conversely serial killers , they stalk their victims they taunt the police they know what they are committing , they do have a compulsive mental illness but they are not insane.<br><br>Mental Institutions are not prisons so to speak , killers are re least back on the streets when ever a phycologist feels that they are no danger to society or themselves SO LONG AS THEY TAKE THEIR MEDs <-- wtf ?<br><br>
#374671 - 08/02/0803:50 AMRe: Whats up with you wacky Canuks?
My grandfather was a diagnosed schizophrenic, who was hospitalized on and off over the years, so I know the crazy things mental illness can cause people to do. One day my grandmother was playing her piano, enjoying herself, and he came running into the room and chopped up it into little pieces with an ax, for example. Then there was the time he wouldn't eat because he thought she was putting poison into his food, even though all nine of his children were eating the same food and not dying of poison. There was the time, after she finally kicked him out, when he told his doctor that the reason his foot was hurting him was because the guy in the apartment under him was shooting laser beams up through the floor into his foot while he was sleeping. <br><br>You ask a very good question. Are these people criminally responsible? Probably not. But does society need to be protected from them?<br><br>There was the time, right before my grandmother kicked my grandfather out for good, when he wouldn't let her go to the bathroom to pee. She said that she ended up peeing herself on the kitchen floor because he was blocking her from going into the bathroom. The last time I visited him in the nursing home, for no reason whatsoever, he grabbed his walking cane and started beating me with it! Good thing my husband was there to stop him, or he would have probably beat me to death. My grandfather was 6' 4" tall.<br><br>Criminally responsible? No. Danger to society? Yes. <br><br>
A danger for sure, Donna. I am very skeptical about the whole psychological profession, to tell you the truth. Things like temporary insanity or "crime of passion" that reduces volition . . . all of that seems to me wrong wrong wrong. But there are such things as mental diseases, and I honestly don't think that making people with such diseases into inmates in a jail somewhere does any good. Not that I have any solutions, naturally. <br><br>[color:red]</font color=red> [color:orange]</font color=orange> [color:yellow]</font color=yellow> [color:green]</font color=green> [color:blue]</font color=blue> [color:purple]</font color=purple>
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>and I honestly don't think that making people with such diseases<p><hr></blockquote><p>I don't think the guy had any disease, I think he simply wanted to kill someone, and picked the smallest and easiest target on the bus. <br><br>Honestly I don't believe it's that odd or uncommon. It's probably quite common in fact, but people will gasp and act terrified and make discussion that someone has to be "insane" or "sick, but why when someone kills somebody are they automatically labeled so? We all want some form of power and control, and taking someones life is the ultimate form of control.<br><br>Time and time again we've seen virtually brilliant people end up being killers. Wouldn't surprise me if this guy ends up being someone we'd all think was a genius otherwise.<br><br><br>Hey I'm an F'n Jerk!®
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#374674 - 08/02/0806:01 AMRe: Whats up with you wacky Canuks?
I agree. Even totally sane people can have bad days! <br><br>After working in a mental institution for 14 years, I've seen things that made me question the fine line between sanity and insanity more than I care to recall. <br><br><br>
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