Give me a break please read above,, I even place dictionary definitions the difference between war and occupation.<br><br>Simply you cannot occupy a country without first winning the war. DoH<br>What is happening now is an insurgency against the occupiers and inter tribal wars between the Iraqi people not to mention meddling by Al Queada and Iran for political gains.<br><br>Technically;<br>There is a legal Iraqi government in place governed by Iraqi people - the US is now in support to that government and NOT as occupiers, keep in mind that Iraq has its own military as well. When free elections finally comes around then it will be official in the Iraqi public minds that the US is not an occupying force <-- sooner rather then later the US will pull out. Only when they stop killing each other and the Iraqi government can hold their own.<br><br>
<br>I love dictionary definitions. They are so .... well... definitive!<br>If you really believe the war was won, can you please give me a more detailed time-frame?<br><br>When was it won? When Dubya said so? When Bremer disbanded the Iraqi army? When Saddam's statue was toppled, or when he was fished out of his hole in the ground?<br>Or are you suggesting that this momentous event took place when the first puppet government was installed? <br>Throughout that time, there were bombings and fighting, so when was the last shot of the war fired?<br><br><br><br><br>
"Humor ist, wenn man trotzdem lacht" (Humour means laughing despite of it)
— – -<br>HA, Ha, <small>ha, ja, <small>jA, <small>JA… </small></small></small> … aAjh<br><br><br>— — — <br><br>So you… thought you… were going to… be ignored ???? <big>[color:red]HELL <big><big><big>NO</big></big>!</font color=red></big></big><br><br><br> Well, as a matter of fact, katlpablo, I- happen to agree with you on this one!<br><br>Don't think for a MacMinute that I didn't get your point on the old and new challenges, problems and contradictions which a draft would have to face in its moment of implementation : men & women; gays & lesbians; religious vs religious vs atheists; immigrants legal & illegal looking for citizenship; cocolos ẏ rokeros kultural; even, race vs race. … All put together involuntarily! <br><br>Today everyone in the military knows they are there because of a decision they made, a decision that they thought out. They knew there would be all kinds of people with them, with all kinds of different backgrounds and experiences, training together…<br><br>•••<br><br>I think so many things have come out of hiding that the draft is now too problematic to be instituted again:<br><br>—Its first problem is that it's a DRAFT. It's obligatory! You have to obey even if you don't like it. Even if you don't believe in it. Even if you oppose it.<br>—For this reason the draft would have to be directed at recuitring very young people; maybe only they have the right impressionable minds that would adapt and submit to the kind of authority the military requests. In which case, are we going to retain, maybe against their will, 16 and 18 year olds at the height of their learning abilities, and instead of educating them in a love for life, we will train them for controlled aggression? Ok, NO![img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Not 16 or 18 year olds; 21 year olds! Men and women 21 years old, some will already be married some with kids, but that's what professionals have to… Hey [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/wink.gif[/img], these are draftees, and being a warrior isn't necessarily the aspiration of many of these young adults. And they're not kids anymore!… …So who's left?<br>—Who is drafted and who is not? Who is going to be the target of a draft campaign? Young prisoners from the prison industrial complex? Will the mandatory military service turn out to be a body alien to the country it should serve? Could being drafted to the military be a reward or penalty proposition? Could some groups be able to avoid by whatever means the mandate that is imposed on others? Will there still be such a figure as the conscientious objector?<br><div align="right">•••</div><br><br>What's needed —like you mentioned katlpablo—, instead of a DRAFT, is a powerful voluntary defensive military that protects the land and wealth of its country and looks out for the health of its people. Its function is to guard the country from all threats domestic or foreign. In addition it has now become necessary for the country's democracy that the military advise congress, to regulate and keep in good check the private competition in the area of defense and national security, which are crucial, and may become subject to strange [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/crazy.gif[/img] influences when contractors are in charge. [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/crazy.gif[/img]As seen recently in Iraq.<br><br> [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/smile.gif[/img] <br><br>
carp, bush just yesterday talked about the current war in Iraq:<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>President Bush Discusses Iraq<br><br>"I want to say a word to our troops and civilians in Iraq. You've performed with incredible skill under demanding circumstances. The turnaround you have made possible in Iraq is a brilliant achievement in American history. And while this war is difficult, it is not endless. And we expect that, as conditions on the ground continue to improve, they will permit us to continue the policy of return on success. The day will come when Iraq is a capable partner of the United States. The day will come when Iraq is a stable democracy that helps fight our common enemies and promote our common interests in the Middle East. And when that day arrives, you'll come home with pride in your success, and the gratitude of your whole nation."<br>President George W. Bush<br>April 10, 2008<p><hr></blockquote><p><a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/">Whitehouse's website -- http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/</a><br><br>you can use any definition you'd like, but the president is saying we're at war in Iraq right now. a war we haven't won and a war that isn't endless, but currently has no light at the end of the tunnel. unfortunately, he is defining the end as a day when, "Iraq is a stable democracy that helps fight our common enemies and promote our common interests in the Middle East." good luck seeing that end in your lifetime. <br><br>the next president will frame the "war" differently . . . i'd rather not call it a war either, but the war language is what helps to allow Bush to continue throwing money into the effort. i'd love to see us call it an occupation or even nation building and you'd see how quickly what little support is left would dry up. <br><br><br>--<br>[color:red] Kansas Jayhawks -- 2008 National Champions </font color=red>
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