Most of the punditocracy wants to talk about Sen. Obama's former minister because it is something that fits their preconceived notion. They need a hook, however irrelevant to the issues of the campaign.<br><br>-- Cee Bee Double-U
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>but how does obama view him?<p><hr></blockquote><p> I can only repeat, Why does it matter? My priest and pastor while I was growing up had zero say in how I would comport myself as President of the United States. God forbid any preacher has that power over anyone. <br><br>I would not believe Senator McCain should be sullied by his friendship and endorsement by Catholic hating Pastor Hagee even though McCain called Hagee “the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement,” and praised his pro-Israel stance.<br><br>Now he is stupidly trying to distance himself from Hagee just as Obama is doing with Wright. "I repudiate any comments that are made, including Pastor Hagee's."<br><br>It is a stupid stupid topic. <br><br>
No no no... it has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with sorry attempts to dish dirt. I have yet to hear a theological argument from the same gasbags that condemn Rev. Wright in one breath and coddle Rev. Robertson in the next. Can anyone say with a straight face that this has anything to do with Sen. Obama's actions as president?<br><br>No.<br><br>-- Cee Bee Double-U
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>what don't you get?<p><hr></blockquote><p>So every churchgoer who was in attendance for Wright, at anytime, is equally morally corrupt, lacks judgement and hates America? Every child who might have heard Rev. Wright's sermons can never grow up to be president of the United States?<br><br>Any follower of Haggard is a lying homosexual meth user?<br>Any follower of Pat Robertson advocates assination of foreign leaders?<br>Any follower of any church who's clergy has abused young boys is also a pedophile?<br><br>and on and on. <br> <br><br>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>We have an Iraq War which has killed thousands and an economy flushing itself down the toilet. Record high foreclosures as people eat cat food to make balloon payments while the Fed bails out the culprits. Yet we spend endless hours discussing a preacher who spoke while a candidate was in attendance. No, I can't believe it. It is pure and unadulterated insanity.<br><p><hr></blockquote><p>This is exactly what I've been saying. I wish I could tell Obama to do a Dubya when answering future questions about this: "I already talked about that. If you missed it go back and watch it. It's all over the internet. Now, let's talk about something worthwhile. We're not electing a preacher; we're electing a president." <br><br>I can't believe this discussion continues. WHO FUC[i][/i]KING CARES? If this is so important, why not go after all the white politicians who've lectured at Bob Jones University? <br><br>Shooshie<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pictures and things</font color=green>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>all the white politicians<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>You give the answer with the question. Not that I necessarily think of the response as "racist"--a word too often used, IMHO. It's just that for once the dominant majority gets to hear what the usually marginalized voices of the minority have to say, and it sounds different and shocking precisely because if comes from a normally marginalized voice. The kind of thing that Wright says is not news to most African Americans, particularly to older African Americans. That's one of the things that Obama said in that wonderful speech. It is news to most of the rest of us. And you know, even if the emperor is in fact wearing clothes, if he hears someone say that he's not wearing clothes it's going to disconcert him.<br><br>I won't express my opinion about the sartorial status of the emperor--done that elsewhere.<br><br>[color:red]</font color=red> [color:orange]</font color=orange> [color:yellow]</font color=yellow> [color:green]</font color=green> [color:blue]</font color=blue> [color:purple]</font color=purple>
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Well, Reverend Wright's statements do not surprise me at all. Where I grew up, slavery was alive and well, and I was often called "massa" by black people who were being completely respectful, not using it sarcastically as anyone today would have to be. White people may have paid them money for their labor, but it was less money than any white person could have lived on, and "they" were expected to go back to their quarters after work and stay there. You didn't see any of "their kind" in town after dark. By the time I was in 5th grade, I was positively mortified by all this. I felt helpless to change this gigantic evil which was simply more than I could take in. Most of my elders were super-racists. My teachers, coaches, preachers, police, politicians, storekeepers... they were all racist. We had the signs that said "no colored people allowed." We had "colored entrances" and drinking fountains. Needless to say, our schools were segregated. Most blacks worked at the sawmills, which usually owned the houses their employees lived in. Their days were timed by whistles which told them when they should get up, when they should go to work, when they could break for lunch, when they got off work, and when each shift would do the same. My parents were not racist, thank goodness, at least not so much as others. We were all racist; you were born into that society, and that's what you were until you consciously rejected it. To this day, I call myself a recovering racist, for even what I was by default for my first 10 years has to be consciously pushed back. I cannot forget what it was like and how horribly wicked I felt when I realized what we were, but to forget it might enable the hypocrisy we see in racial politics these days. There were a few lights in our community such as my family doctor, who was the first white doctor in the area to hire a black nurse. She gave shots to patients; that meant she touched them. For most, it was the first time they had ever touched or been touched by a black person. That forward-thinking doctor became my father-in-law. His nurse was like part of the family by that time. But I can take you to people who still think the world has not changed from those days. <br><br>It matters not that black people in the little town in which I grew up had been emancipated -- like all other American towns -- by Lincoln, 90 years before I was born. We had slavery, pure and simple. And Reverend Wright, who is much older than I am, saw far worse in his life, but he could not simply reject it, as I could. He was forced to live it. Just as some of the old white people still believe in their racist past even secretly, many old black people still believe they are living in that same society. That is exactly the challenge that Obama faces. We've got to extinguish these lingering embers of that wicked fire. On both sides. Anyone who thinks it's just one side is contemptibly stupid. <br><br>That world was never officially laid to rest. It's time we really and truly made a partnership of this nation. Time to collaborate, cross sides, dissolve "sides", pull down walls. I want this. I want it so badly. I want our people all to come together and to forgive, to forget the old ways, even if we remember them in history. <br><br>I want to see the conscious rejection and abolishment of the "N" word by all people, both black and white. I'm with George Carlin about all words but that one. That one word has so much evil, so much wicked power, that I just want to see it go away for a generation or two. Let it return after we've all forgotten it, and then it will be only a word. Maybe a "bad" word, but perhaps at least it won't carry the evil and wickedness that it now carries. For each one of us who grew up in that society has a dark spot in our hearts, and that word is the key to that spot. I would love to know that the dark spot in my 10-year-old heart, up to the time when I consciously rejected it, could heal and grow light again, and that all access to it is gone forever. I like to believe it is so; but when I hear that word, I remember it all too clearly. <br><br>I want Obama to be our president. I believe that will be the beginning of true healing. To know that the world looks up to a black man as its most powerful leader, and that mere words can't hurt him, that will be a day for rejoicing for all of us, I believe. <br><br>It is time. <br><br>Shooshie<br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pictures and things</font color=green>
Loc: Syracuse, NY
You can't be serious? Obama gets slobbered on by the media ad nauseam. Brigham Young's opinions 200 years ago have absolutely no equivalence today to Rev Wright's views. It is racists like Rev Wright that keep wrenching us backward while time, (which heals all wounds), continues to march on.<br><br>
Yep. Ii remember the days of Jim Crow pretty well. When we moved to Miami in 1960, it was a sleepy little southern town with all of the Jim Crow laws in place. To get to my elementary school, I had to take a city bus to the bus depot, and then walk a couple of blocks to the school. The depot had the usual signs of the Jim Crow south. Colored and White bathrooms for men and women, colored and white water fountains. Blacks were required to sit in the back of the bus. The restaurant in the depot had a sign proclaiming<br><br><b style="color: black; font-size: 900%; font-family: 'Verdana','Helvetica',serif;">NO NEGROES[/b]<br><br>And although I was a fairly early part of the wave of Cuban refugees who ultimately helped transform Miami, I got the opportunity early on in life to appreciate the sentiments that someone had thoughtfully scrawled in magic marker under the printed message,<br><br><b style="color: black; font-size: 900%; font-family: 'Verdana','Helvetica',serif;">NO CUBANS[/b]<br><br>I have to say that the Cuban context I came from was profoundly racist--and the word did apply, as you say it applied where you were growing up. But the experience of being one of the ones denoted by the scrawl surely opened up my eyes very quickly. I still remember the result in my school of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Suddenly the segregated school I'd gone to was no longer segregated. I had black kids sitting next to me, black teachers--it was great. They helped me to see why I had to join the Civil Rights movement of the mid sixties. It was a great time to stretch consciousness.<br><br>And you're absolutely right that racism hasn't died. But still I'm not sure that every single response that sounds like it might be racist is actually racist.<br><br>[color:red]</font color=red> [color:orange]</font color=orange> [color:yellow]</font color=yellow> [color:green]</font color=green> [color:blue]</font color=blue> [color:purple]</font color=purple>
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