<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>John McCain was not making policy or planning the war, he was serving the country and performing the missions he was assigned to do.<p><hr></blockquote><p>are you offering that as a defense or a proud and just fact? you do know how many nazi foot soldiers claimed the same?<br><br><br><br>"fly peacock, fly."<br><br>[color:red]Libertarian Communist</font color=red>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>(your entire post) <p><hr></blockquote><p> That's largely with the benefit of hindsight i.e. the West having long since won the Cold War. Marxist theory was that the entire world would succumb to socialism which would have been great if there hadn't been a perception at the time that it was oppressive and corrupt. The original idea was to defend freedom for Saigon rather than to wage an aggressive war against the north which, admittedly, might have been naive - in retrospect.<br><br>km<br><br>
When the nazi foot soldiers become a presidential candidate, lets discuss it then. <br><br>Swiftboating of John Kerry derailed an honest discourse on the candidate. John McCain has so many other issues of importance that give argument to why he should not be president, bringing the "vietnam hero" question into play will most likely derail those arguments and give us a McCain presidency. This is not the battle to fight -- arguing about how people view Vietnam --- it's about NOW and the FUTURE. Giving the GOP the distraction of saturating the media with "Liberals & Democrats hate Vietnam Vets!" or "Liberals & Democrats hate the troops" is the wrong battle.<br><br><br><br>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>What you're suggesting now is no different than what the swiftboaters did to John Kerry, so really, does 2008 really need that kind of assholely argument again?<p><hr></blockquote><p>Swiftboating is American political jargon that is used (primarily) as a strong pejorative description of some kind of attack that the speaker considers unfair or untrue—for example, an ad hominem attack or a smear campaign.<br><br>what i have said does not fit that definition; nor does anyone bestowed the title of hero where all they have done is their job or survived personal hardship --a heroic personal effort to survive? perhaps, a "hero"? no. is every jew who survived the camps a hero? is every falsely convicted felon a hero? don't be a fool.<br><br>you want to defend a difficult to defend war record? at least choose one that was drafted and did not have the wherewithall (including brains) to resist in a unjustifiable and therefore criminal cause.<br><br>you ppl are f'in riot. here i am trying to build you up and you keep digging your graves. but what do i expect where you can't properly use the word hero or where "swiftboating" (which you also, obviously, do not understand) is more important.<br><br>what does it take to open your mind and learn from history, from millenniums of wars and law making and society building?<br><br>you may have no interest in history, but history has an interest in you.<br><br><br><br>"fly peacock, fly."<br><br>[color:red]Libertarian Communist</font color=red>
With your argument, then Obama and Clinton should not be considered presidential material because both claim strong support for the troops and honor their service to the country. The point is that policy and service to the country are two different things.<br><br> <br><br>
"you ppl are f'in riot. here i am trying to build you up and you keep digging your graves."<br><br>You are a riot all yourself ichi. And American interventionist policy is history repeating itself, history biting back. And McCain is/was the most vocal supporter of the Iraq war among the current/recent candidates and I do have a problem with that. As Lea says: Signing off. At least here.<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
_________________________ We are what we repeatedly do - Aristotle
cowards only do the right thing by accident. you were right in the first instance.<br>it also takes courage to admit when one is wrong --you see how much of that america understand. no, america has become a mere bully and bullies act out of nothing but fear.<br><br><br><br>"fly peacock, fly."<br><br>[color:red]Libertarian Communist</font color=red>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>re i am trying to build you up and you keep digging your graves<p><hr></blockquote><p>Hardly the case. Trashing an opposition candidate over military service to their country and whether "heroism" can be claimed from that service is about as Rovian as it comes. <br><br>Why on earth do you think you need to "build us up"? Supporting Obama and Clinton is "digging our own graves"? <br><br>
you mean like Vietnam and Iraq were US territories. just trying to keep focus. that is, ppl like mccaine who believe Vietnam was just and we were prevented from "winning" by peaceniks. ppl who if in power would try never to let that happen again --like right now in Iraq. which, in turn spreads the bully image. thus, a bigger bully will eventually be recruited by someone or by many.<br><br><br><br>"fly peacock, fly."<br><br>[color:red]Libertarian Communist</font color=red>
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