And the BBC has the same feature. Your point being??<br><br>My point is, yes something starts a conflict. But as retaliation begates retaliation, at what point do you say - it doesn't matter who started it, it has to stop now? Iterative retaliation is perpetual conflict - you can go back 50 years, 100 years, 1000 years, and find someone blaming the other for a slight and thus there retaliation was therefore justified. It's all bull. Get together talk it out and make it work.<br><br>Maybe one of your ancestors massacred native americans or had slaves, does that make you responsible for their actions? In my book no it doesn't. If your brother is a bank robber does that mean that you should serve time for their crime?<br><br>I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.
_________________________ I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.
Loc: Pinellas Park, Florida
Yep! Saddam was a strong ally at one point. Calling a spade a spade is not wrong even if the spade is offended. And how the hell is that going to allow Turkey to justify killing all the Kurds? That will be genocide, too. Really. What's the beef? <br><br>
Sounds Good to Me! <br><br>Now if we can just get Isaac drop his ancient grudge <br>against Ishmael, just to set a good example, you<br>understand, open the interment camps, tear down <br>the apartheid wall, we can all go home in PEACE!<br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Yup... we doan like to own up to using & misusing the Black Africans we dragged here <br>in chains (even though it was common practice all the way back to Biblical times. <br>Now we can see how unthinkably barbaric the practice was, and are ashamed) but if<br>we'd never owned up to it, we'd have never turned that around. Things change, slowly<br>but inevitably. We're shamed by taking the land away from the Native Americans, and<br>committing a genocide of our own to get what we wanted (well, most of us are, 'cept for<br>a few "HeeHaw" arseoles like "Hop-Along-DUHbya" and the odd Texan) or that we put<br>our fellow Americans into interment camps during WWII because they looked just<br>like "The Enemy". Or that The Japanese dint like owning up to what they'd done to the<br>Chinese, or what's going on in Burma even now... <br>OF COURSE IT'S A NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT AND NO ONE WANTS TO OWN UP TO IT!<br>...but if people don't take responsibility for their actions things will never change.<br><br><br><br>SPEAKING OF CHANGING:<br><br><br>It's become obvious that the PLAN was to Start *WAR* <--> The STATE OF BEING<br>and it looks like The NEO-CONNNN PLAN Has Worked!<br><br>The ESCALATING "WAR ON TERROR" has finally Translated into a WAR ON ISLAM.<br><br>God Help Us All<br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Slavery was not always restricted to sub-Saharan Africans. A great many of the Greeks who lived in Rome, for instance, were slaves, and in Greece itself, before the advent of Rome as the major power in Europe, there were slaves from all over the Mediterranean world. In Africa too there were slaves, held by other Africans. I don't know about the practices elsewhere, in Asia or in the pre-Columbian New World. But I do know that what makes slavery in the US very different from slavery in Europe or Africa, or for that matter in non-English places in the post-Columbian New World, is that slaves in the US were considered to be chattel property, pure and simple. That means that means that in law slaves were not considered to be human--the word "chattel" comes from the same root, in fact is the same as the word "cattle," and says clearly that slaves were in principle not very different from cows or horses. Oddly enough, the only edge against that idea of slaves in the US was the despicable three-fifths compromise, which counted slaves as three-fifths of a person for purposes of counting the population of the slave states. I say that that's the only edge against the idea of chattel slaves because it acknowledged some degree of humanity in the slave, albeit only theoretically, so to speak. The contrast to the practice of slavery in most of the ancient world couldn't be sharper. Slaves then were people captured during warfare or people who had committed some heinous crime. In most societies, the condition of slavery did not alter the human status of the slave. In fact many many slaves in ancient times became the teachers of the slave-owner's family. That's not always the case, to be sure, and there are examples of incredibly bad treatment of slaves in Greece and Rome and Africa. But in general the social assumptions that make slaves in US history less than human did not obtain back then.<br><br>   
_________________________ MACTECHubi dolor ibi digitus
There is a small and odd exception in our American history of slavery. New Orleans, and most of Louisiana retained an enormous French influence (and population) in the early 1800s. Slaves were treated slightly better, in that their French descended masters understood what slave revolt was all about, via Haiti. The majority of slaves shipped to New Orleans were from Haiti.<br><br>In Louisiana, a slave could buy his/her freedom, or that of a relative. It often required an entire lifetime of savings from independent enterprises, but it happened, and often enough that self-freed slaves became property owners and indeed, their own social class. Very low on the ladder, but once self-emancipated, these freed people were afforded the same civil/legal options available to the white population. It was also not uncommon for a master to grant a slave his/her freedom upon the master's death, along with property and money as an inheritance. The bulk of this kind of emancipation was bestowed on female slaves who had been wives of masters and mothers to the masters' children.<br><br>This self-emancipation didn't happen anywhere else in the States; the result in Louisiana, especially in the southwestern part of the state was a social, cultural and racial gumbo of French/African/Caribbean/Native American people that became known over time as Creoles of Color.<br><br>This history fascinates me. We worked on a project here in Houston that involved the folks in Frenchtown and their migration from Louisiana to this area after the devastating Mississippi flood of 1927. We think of Creole as a type of music or food, and it is, but it's really a unique ethnic group here along the Gulf in both states, and some in California, due to another migration to the LA area after WWII.<br><br>Through to our involvement in a TxDOT project here in Houston, we researched records, recorded the oral histories and the transcription process just about broke my heart. The Creoles who landed in Houston after the flood were ripped up from roots that went back generations. Being Creole in Southern Louisiana was ordinary. But here in Texas, they were told they were too black to be white and too white to be black. So they built their own churches, their own businesses, their own homes, resulting in a self-contained enclave that people called Frenchtown, north of Houston proper.<br><br>They had their own language, too, not many spoke public school English and so their children were treated very badly. As a community, they made a conscious decision to not speak or teach their Creole language to their youngest children and the dialect all but died out.<br><br>[color:blue]Denise Labrie explained why the language was allowed to die: "They were ridiculed and made fun of because of that [language]. You know, if youíre different, youíre going to be singled out. So, they made a decision not to pass on the Creole language to their children, because they didnít want us to go through what they went through." </font color=blue><br><br>Thank God the language didn't suffer the same fate back in Louisiana. And thank God the Creoles did land here in Houston, because over time, they melded their folk music with the urban blues they listened to on the radio and in the clubs. They literally gave birth to a new music form ~ Zydeco. People think of Zydeco as Louisiana music, and it is, in that Creoles originated there. But as its own music form, Zydeco was born in Houston, and specifically Frenchtown.<br><br>Got carried away, so thanks for listening.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>
_________________________ I always deserve it. Really.
<br> So you advocate a return to "the good old days"?<br>...my neighbours will be tickled pink to hear it.<br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
While I'm quite familiar with the worldwide history of slavery<br>it was but a minute fragment of the point I was trying to make.<br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
The spiders in your head must be really busy this afternoon.<br><br>I related a history that I spent two years reseraching. That it was lost on you comes as no surprise.<br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>
_________________________ I always deserve it. Really.
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