<br>Very Very Very well said.<br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>

I love how reverential the music always is for these kinds of films.<br><br>I'm also wondering why we skirt around the fundamental premise of the book I linked to above, that quite possibly the universe is not a rational phenomenon and that our idea that rational analysis will figure it all out is itself a reverential stance--a matter of faith, so to speak. Like I said, I think the argument is flawed, but that doesn't mean the premise is.<br><br>Let me add that usually I'm as fervent a believer in the rationality of things as anyone else. But on odd days every other blue moon, I have me doubts, donchaknow.<br><br><br><br>&#63743; &#63743; &#63743; &#63743;

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>If in the simplest terms you are asking "can I separate men who do good thing with religion from people who bad things with religion" than sure, I can do that. Good people can do whatever they want. Bad people who use religion to exploit others really sucks.<p><hr></blockquote><p>FINALLY you understand what I was talking about. We both agree on this point. <br><br>Oh, and I"m done with this thread.<br><br><br>my beer blog<br>

And SOMEWHERE in all that mess I stated that <br>we have a need to make order of things<br>...even in the absence of any.<br><br>EDIT from pg1: to add...<br><br>The "need for religion" is actually a "need for order"<br>IOW "a need to make sense of things" EVERYTHING!<br>There's no question:"WHY" that can ever be fully<br>satisfied by a simple; "BECAUSE"<br><br>"Those whom heaven helps we call the sons of heaven. They do not learn this by<br>learning. They do not work it by working. They do not reason it by using reason.<br>To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment.<br>Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven." ~ Chuang Tse.<br><br>I wanted to add that:<br>even though to some people "Ignorance equals bliss" <br>On a personal level, I happen not to agree.<br>I find ignorance irritating.<br><br>Asking "WHY" drives the Human Race Forward.<br>(THANK GOD!) lololol just needed saying. <br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Celandine on 09/11/07 10:56 AM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>

I agree--ignorance is not bliss. And the poet Gray, who wrote the "Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College" where that line appears, actually wrote, "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." That subordinating conjunction is usually dropped, but it's a really important one, generally speaking as well as in the context of the ode itself, in which Gray, observing the kids at Eton playing on the schoool's fields (where according to Churchill WW I was won, no less), remembers his own "innocent" past as a child in the school, and contrasts it with the cynical wisdom he's gained as he's grown up and learned all about "The still sad music of humanity, / Nor harsh, nor grating, but of ample power / To chasten and subdue" (that's Wordsworth, not Gray, but Gray would agree). In light of the contrast, then, Gray concludes that the kids (and by extension humanity generally) are "little victims" ignorant of their fate. That's when he adds, "Where ignorance is bliss . . . ." Not exactly a ringing endorsement of ignorance!<br><br>&#63743; &#63743; &#63743; &#63743;

But that does brings us back to those that would rather put their faith<br>in mythology rather than seek answers for why things are as they are.<br><br>Another grating answer is "...because that's the way it's ALWAYS been."<br>as a lame excuse for not doing anything to change what is plainly not working.<br><br>The situation in the Middle East leaps to mind... also what polymerase eluded<br>to as religion being no excuse for any group/nation to not be held accountable.<br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>