<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I agree with Poly. I'd love to ban all religions. Unfortunately, that won't/can't happen.<p><hr></blockquote><p>but what we can do is to stop giving tax breaks for religious organizations.<br><br>i kept skipping this topic, but as it grew my curiosity got the best of me.<br><br>i am raising my kids to be atheists, which is hard to do as the area where i live is more religious than the bible belt. my son is in kindergarten so i've got to be careful as i don't want him to get into trouble. not too long ago another kid said something about God and my son told him there was no God. the kid told my son there was and so my son laughed at the kid . . . who told the teacher. i've talked to him about not talking about God out in public, but he's 5 so what do i expect. the other 5 year old certainly felt comfortable mentioning God, so my son is no different in this respect. <br><br>i do worry about how they'll be perceived by the many religious folk they'll encounter. i just keep reminding them that we are not charged with proving there is no God any more than we're charged with proving that there are no unicorns. i explain that some people choose to believe in a God and they use this belief as a crutch to help them get through life, but that i expect my children to not learn to live relying on the perceived acceptance of an external myth. i tell them not to talk religion with others as some folks feel very strongly about their faith. my kids are not supposed to tell anyone that they are atheist because i don't think they fully understand what it means any more than their peers have no real understanding of most of the intricacies of their parent's chosen religion that they're brainwashing their kids with.<br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>i tell them not to talk religion with others as some folks feel very strongly about their faith.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>oh, so they aren't allowed to form their own opinions? <br><br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> my kids are not supposed to tell anyone that they are atheist because i don't think they fully understand what it means any more than their peers have no real understanding of most of the intricacies of their parent's chosen religion that they're brainwashing their kids with.<br><p><hr></blockquote><p><br>And telling your kids what to think isn't another form of brainwashing? <br><br><br>I mean no disrespect fsm, but wanted to point that out. <br><br>I'm definately in the minority here regarding God and religion it seems. But hey, believe (or not!) what you all want to believe (or not!), just don't go assuming that we are brainwashed or ignorant. This is something I choose to do whether you (or anyone else here) accept that or not.<br><br>If I'm wrong, so what? We all end up dead anyway, it's what possibly might happen afterwards that does make a difference.<br><br>my beer blog<br>

You're exactly on point about brainwashing, John.<br><br>Every parent will instill their belief system into their children. I see 0 difference between the atheist and the Christian in this respect. Doesn't matter what it's called ~ indoctrination, brainwashing, education, child rearing ~ parents teach their children to believe what the parents believe.<br><br>There is absolutely no difference between the atheist, agnostic, humanist, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist or Catholic parents of the world in this regard. None. Nada. Zilch.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>

My point regarding Koresh and the others is that it's an act by man. Same with those old crusades, etc. Men made those decisions, not God. Men interpretated things to their will, not God's. <br><br>Now, obviously I can't argue a fact as well as you, so that's why I may not post any more replies here. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>If you remove religion from your life and you think that is all that is left than I can't help you.<br><p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Not sure I understand your sentence as you wrote it. But then again, I wouldn't expect you to help me because I didn't ask for it. <br><br> <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Why limit myself? Are you kidding me? If I don't want to limit myself why don't I become a Muslim Jew who is a born again Christian? Now I got it covered. No limits. [quote]<br><br>Sure, go for it. <br><br>[quote]Instead you pick a God. You are now the person with limits. There are rules to follow. Reverends to listen too and maybe even believe.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Limits? Sure, there are limits just like the laws created in each country. But I don't consider them limits personally. <br><br>Exactly how do you consider me limited by choosing God?<br><br>my beer blog<br>

Thanks. <br><br>You are exactly right in your post too and that's actually pretty funny. Yeah, my beliefs were instilled by my parents, but they were thinking that they were doing the right thing. I agree with them, that was MY choice later in life. Growing up I didn't want to go to church.<br><br>Personally I think that those who adamantly refuse to talk about God in any way but a negative light are limiting themselves.<br><br><br><br><br>my beer blog<br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> . . . those who adamantly refuse to talk about God in any way but a negative light are limiting themselves.<p><hr></blockquote><p>And consider their views "enlightened." <br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>

Sorry I took so long responding. Was picking up my hand from the ground. Dragging my knuckles on the ground sure can make typing slow! <br><br>I'm not a very good at arguing a side, so that's why I usually get in one, get my ass handed to me because I don't know all the facts or can't presnt them properly, then I stop responding. And so I tend to avoid them.<br><br>But it just blows my mind the lack of tolerance from the "other" side. I'm a conservative republican* [gasp] who probably has a more open mind about these things than they do!<br><br><br><br><br><br>*who might just vote independent this time around!<br><br>my beer blog<br>

I'm atheist but I allowed my daughter to explore. In fact, we encouraged her to check out several religions through her friends. We had a bible in the house in the event she wished to read it.<br><br>She chose not to believe of her own free will but she has a understanding of what others believe. IMO, enforcing a non-belief is every bit the same as those who'd teach religion.<br><br>

My folks did what was expected for parents to do in the 1950's<br>I was made to join a church, and receive religious instruction<br>to give me a basic handle on what was what. We learned our <br>Catechism, & were Baptized like most other kids, but then they <br>backed-off and allowed us to figure the rest out for ourselves. <br><br>Most recently I came to terms with life as we know it, being<br>merely a long sequence of biological happenstances (No Grand<br>Designer, nor All-Knowing Omnipotent Watchmaker, Not even<br>a GBBoYP (GreatBigBowlofYummyPasta) with/out meat balls.)<br><br>Like every coin, it has 2 sides: On one side, there was no Santa <br>Claus. On the OTHER, there's no Monster in the Closet either.<br>So you don't live your life waiting for it to end, instead you learn <br>to take responsibility for your own actions and for the simple<br>pleasures, happiness, and rewards while still alive and kicking.<br><br>And they all lived happily ever after --- THE END.<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>

Well, thank you from the bottom of my argument weary heart. That's the point I've been trying to make. John got in this a little late, but I believe he's saying the same thing. <br><br>And, like John, I usually stay out of these discussions (and they've always appeared over in the Box, funny, huh?) because poly and the guys are heavy hitters. I greatly admire their intelligence, I adore them as people and I figure I'm in way over my head when I try to reason with the over-educated lugs. <br><br>That you encouraged your daughter to explore, rather than insist she adopt your belief system when she was very young, is wonderful and really, remarkable. I imagine the percentage of parents willing to "chance" their child's enlightement / redemption is pretty small. <br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>