Loc: Syracuse, NY
Do you really think that is their only goal? The insurgents are not all jihadists hell bent on the US presence in the middle east. Don't forget that most of the command and control is coming from baathists from sadam's day's. I would imagine that these folks are a little upset that there are elections going on and they have no chance of having a real voice in any new Iraqi government. Us leaving would leave them to their old devices. <br><br>Edit. I've got to start using safari for the spell check alone. <br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mojo_jojo on 11/18/05 04:42 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Loc: Syracuse, NY
Hmm..some differences between Iraq and Vietnam.<br> <br>There is no Soviet Union or China funding the insurgents. Granted there is no lack of available weaponry, but there exists no concerted support from outside.<br>The insurgents are not fighting for their countries freedom. They are a small group of former Saddam loyalists that don't want to lose all the perks they had when they were in power. They oppose free elections and want to regain miniority control of the country.<br>The violence in Iraq is concentrated in three provinces. The other 15 provinces are doing very well. Especially Kurdistan to the north.<br><br>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Diverse groups have been drawn into the ranks of Iraq's insurgency, with little in common beyond a commitment to attack US forces or their perceived allies.<p><hr></blockquote><p>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4268904.stm<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Iraq has also seen an influx of foreign "jihadi" fighters, most of whom have joined the Sunni Muslim insurgency.<br><br>Their number is small - estimated at no more than 3,000 - but their profile is high.<p><hr></blockquote><p>--<br>"I am mindful that diversity is one of the strengths of the country" --president bush on 9/27/05
Yes, those are differences. But the essential problems that matter are the same. The insurgents certainly see themselves as freedom fighters even if you don't. The vast majority of the country wants us out, and and we don't know who our friends are. We went in their with grand ideas and are getting our butts kicked but managing to get killed and kill men, women, and children with great regularity. And the war is less and less popular every day. And we don't/can't get out without our tail between our legs. These are the similarities that matter. The differences are for someone writing a book report.<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
_________________________ We are what we repeatedly do - Aristotle
No. Mo's right about the differences between 'Nam and Iraq. We didn't invade Vietnam overnight. The ramp up from "police action" to war took a few years to accomplish. Vietnam proved to be unwinnable, and it took several more years for that fact to become unavoidable. IMHO, it's too early to tell if Iraq is winnable or not. The bigger question is, do we even want to win it?<br><br>I lost quite a few friends in 'Nam, including my best friend with whom I'd grown up. And I came within an eyelash of going over myself. The one glaring difference, fortunately, is that our guys in Iraq aren't being villified the way those who served in SE Asia were.<br><br>
The administration isn't villifying the soldiers because they need them to fight. Also, President Bush is their boss, that is certainly an inhibitor. The administraion has certainly haven't had any qualms about any who had served or were in a position to speak that questioned their tactics. This business of running down decorated veterans shows how little respect President Bush and Vice-President Cheney and all their group of shrill voices really do have for soldiers. The title of this thread says it all. Because this Congressman who has much experience with war, had the nerve to stand up and say his opinion he is immediately branded as a traitor. No allowing for the fact he stood for the war, no allowing for the fact he bucked his own party for a long time and supported this conflict, no recognition of the fact he knows more how to win this conflict than Rumsfield, Bush and Cheney combined but they don't want to listen. If we really want freedom of speech for the Iraq citizens, we might start demonstrating what freedom of speech is. <br><br>
Yeah sadly many anti-war demonstrators did diss the troops and that was very WRONG ! Intelligent people learn from their mistakes and this time it's the leaders who get FULL blame and not the GI just taking orders.<br><br>Sorry about your friends in Nam - I lost about 10 freinds too !!<br>Pisses me off cause we now know the whole reason for the war was based on a LIE (Johnson's lie about the Gulf of Tonkin incident). I know we've been lied to again. this is deja' vu, Steve. Will we make the same mistakes again as a nation?<br><br>I hope to God, Not !!<br><br>David (OFI)<br>
I lost many of the boys that I was growing up with since Kindergarten.<br>We all got to High School and then they were gone forever, :(<br><br>I didn't start meeting Nam Vets until it was over.<br>They came home to the GI Bill that sat young men-turned snipers<br>next to me in ArtSchool and College.<br><br>During that time, I'd grown up on the LowerEastSide, protesting the War<br>but I NEVER 'Dissed' the Troops! Never did & Never will!<br><br>They were duped into thinking that they were joining to protect <br>those that they left behind. (US)<br>Sound Familiar? They were propagandized to keep them functioning<br>but after a while, no amount of lying could sustain what was<br>happening to them. <br><br>A friend said: "You have NO Idea what it's like, unless you've<br>found yourself waking out of a daze, ...carrying a plastic bag<br>....while searching for the rest of your best friend's head."<br><br>I was keenly aware that they were the kids I grew up with.<br>...and that they were more the victims of that terrible time<br>...and are the victims still (...just look at the VA Care) <br><br><br><br>
_________________________ . "...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"
The anti-war movement was certainly bad about the troops. The soldiers took the blame for the leaders. This administration talks about respecting the troops but has no problem villifying any soldier that even asks a resonable question. Remember Rumsfield smart-ass remark to the soldier that asked about the armour? Since that time our fearless leaders have been careful to only have scripted encounters. I don't like all the talk about "supporting the troops" and then walking all over them when they ask a question. Treat the ones who express an opinion that is different than yours with the same respect you treat the one who agrees with you. <br><br>
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