Loc: Syracuse, NY
No. We have to complete the mission. If we leave now then the insurgents have won. Iraq will sink into deep division and any hope of democracy in the middle east, besides Israel, will be dashed.<br><br>Tax cuts do work. tax revenue's to the treasury are up 37% since the first round of Bush tax cuts. They not only need to be extended to 2010, they need to be made permanent. As far as budget cuts, what they really mean is no increase in spending year to year. Not actually cutting anything. <br><br>
Loc: Syracuse, NY
I don't see them as cannon fodder. They are there to promote and secure a free and democratic middle east. If we leave without accomplishing this then we have done nothing. Terrorism will continue unabated. <br><br>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> No. We have to complete the mission. If we leave now then the insurgents have won. Iraq will sink into deep division and any hope of democracy in the middle east, besides Israel, will be dashed.<p><hr></blockquote><p> You know, I think you are a conservative and I am a liberal. (That's all the anme calling I am going to do )<br><br>Do you think the pull-out of Vietnam was a mistake? Because, believe it or not (I believe Murtha, he was being shot at in Vietnam), that is where we are at. We cannot complete this mission as we could not complete the Vietnam mission. As the Russians could not complete their mission in Afghanistan. <br><br>Rule number one of warfare: If you invade you better do it quick and win the hearts and minds of the invaded. If they see you as an invading and occupying army you are screwed with a capital S. Now is the time for contrition and humility by the White House. Not bullheaded delusional blinkered plank walking that we are doing now.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>(__*__) <-- circular sig when standing
I don't think the facts support your case. We've debated this as a group several times, but it bears repeating. There is nothing that suggests democracy, or whatever government the Iraqi people ultimately choose (seeing as though it's their business any way) cannot happen in Iraq without America. There is also ample proof including statements made by all parties in Iraq along with statistical data from past occupations in Islamic countries that supports a withdrawal for American troops.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey
I am not seeing much secure and free in Iraq. There might be some good things going on but when everyone is afraid, including journalists, to venture outside the green zone, no one will ever know, including other Iraq citizens. There was a big article on that on the Fox News web site. (I haven't figured out how to post a link yet, sorry) That is a big part of the problem. As long as we are there, weare the common enemy. We squandered our chance at making a difference by standing around and watching the country be looted and destroyed. What shopkeeper feels good about American soldiers when his store and merchandise was destroyed? We couldn't bother to even keep hospitals safe. Weapons depot? They weren't secured either. But the Oil Ministry was guarded. If I was going to look for WMD, I would start with Saddam's palaces and government offices, but we let those places get trashed too. The kicker was Tommy Franks walking in with his big cigar and sitting on Saddam's throne. Conquerors do stuff like that, not liberators. Eisenhower would not have been caught dead pulling that kind of stunt. We are nothing but bad news to the Iraq people. We say we will stay the course but are, now, unable or unwilling to commit the resources to to the job, we can't even secure a road. Congressman Murtha is a decorated veteran, if you really support our soldiers, then do not belittle a someone who served. I believe he gave much thought before he made this speech. His frustration with the administration is evident. He stood with the President as long as he could. He does know what body bags look like and has probably had to zip up a lot. If the Islamic terrorist have a favorite congressman, it is not this man. Tom DeLay is more their style.<br><br>
Loc: Syracuse, NY
IMHO comparing Vietnam to Iraq is what the MSM wants to do. And what they want the masses to believe. This comparison is invalid on so many levels. They are in fact two mutually exclusive circumstances. <br><br><br>Suffice it to say that I am willing to agree to disagree. <br><br>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> We have to complete the mission. If we leave now then the insurgents have won. Iraq will sink into deep division and any hope of democracy in the middle east, besides Israel, will be dashed.<p><hr></blockquote><p>who cares if the insurgents win if their only goal is to get us out? seriously. the insurgency to rid iraq of americans will win and cease to exist all at once. that sounds like a win for us and iraq as well. <br><br><br>--<br>"I am mindful that diversity is one of the strengths of the country" --president bush on 9/27/05
Please explain why Vietnam and Iraq are so different? Of course they are different in many ways, as are any two places or wars. But there are fundamental similarities IMHO.<br><br>And why is sectarian hatred and violence that has been going on for centuries going to end if we stay there 4 more years as opposed to one? The only difference is the insurgents will lose a common enemy. I am not saying I support an immediate pullout but the fantasy world you live in is a different story.<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
_________________________ We are what we repeatedly do - Aristotle
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