Carter said the other day on Hardball:<br><br>CARTER: Well, I happen to be a Christian and a Democrat. I have never believed that Jesus Christ, whom I worship, would approve abortions, unless the mother‘s life or health was in danger, or perhaps unless the pregnancy was a result of rape or incest. <br><br>But with those exceptions, I am not in favor of abortions, and I think the Democratic party would make a serious mistake. I am not a Democrat anymore if it became strictly pro-choice party. <br>...<br>-- But there is a balance between it, and when I was president, I had to uphold the Supreme Court ruling on abortion. I did everything I possibly could to minimize a need for abortions".<br><br><br>A tip to Democrats"? Isn't this exactly the same position Kerry took? If Carter was running for office today, his same quote would be used politically to demonize him as a pro abortion 'baby killer' to turn him off to middle America.<br><br><br><br> <br><br><br>
And he himself said he made a better ex-President than a President. It is a lot easier to say and do these things when you don't have such a diverse base as Democats to pander to.<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
_________________________ We are STILL what we repeatedly do - insists Aristotle
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>It may have been Kerry's position, but he never made his message clear.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Kerry made his position very clear... but the media and most of the country was paying attention to the shiny sh!t that was being dangled by the GOP. It's called smoke and mirrors... and it worked. The voters are being led around by their noses and don't even realize it. Case and point!<br><br>
Loc: Syracuse, NY
In my very honest opinion, I think that the Democrats have gone a little too far left and Joe American does not like it. Not an original thought on my part, but Senator Schumer, from New York, or Senator Feinstein from California do not speak for middle America. But those two are on the boob tube more than the Joe Lieberman's of the party. <br><br>
Hey Mojo.... I like you a lot, so I don't want you to take this personally. I have the highest confidence that you're a critical thinker. I say that as I'm about to rant because I respect your opinion and can't think of a single instance when you've thrown [censored] around in a forum or treated people with disrespect. ...okay...<br><br>I am so [censored] sick of arguing people's impressions about one political party or another! Sure, Senator Feinstein and Senator Schumer don't suit everyone's fancy, but they don't have to because they together represent 4% of the states in this country. That does not place them above reproach or mean that you should not criticize their public actions or record. But they don't have some strange metaphysical control over their party just because they are outspoken. If anything, assigning that kind of superiority to an outspoken congressman's viewpoint only denigrates the rest of the caucus, maybe even the caucus from your own state.<br><br>We could talk all day about the respective wing nuts in each party and make the very same argument that either party is being pushed by their wings far out of the mainstream. What about the ridiculously overhanded attacks on homosexuals that Sen. Inhofe has delivered over the last five years? That doesn't mean that the Republicans are a party of homophobics. Maybe I could make an argument against them because they chose Sen. Santorum to be in their leadership, but that's nothing to stick to every single GOP member.<br><br>My ultimate point is that local and regional leadership is way more important. There are plenty of people here in the Midwest like Sen. Russ Feingold and Sen. Barack Obama that certainly do not fit the mold of Schumer and Feinstein. That probably has to do with the fact that Wisconsin and Illinois are vastly different from New York and California. We have chosen leadership to fit our needs and they chose theirs. I'm not going to get pissed off at them for it just as I wouldn't expect them to be angry with me. This is democracy after all isn't it?<br><br>To take it back to the start of this thread, I agree with you. Jimmy Carter's stance contains all of the nuance that every position should have. We should consider our collective goal always: to lower the amount of abortions. I think that has been the position of the Democratic Party, articulated by John Kerry in the 2004 election (in the 2nd debate especially), but I'm not going to argue your impression.<br><br>I do think it is unfortunate that the landscape on this issue is so badly muddied by mostly political activists on both sides of the issue nationally. That just means people like you and I need to look extra hard into candidates positions to find out what they say instead of what they say the other guy says.<br><br>Man, I hate talking about abortion. There is just so much BS to have to clear away before saying anything meaningful.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey
i remember that second debate because i was amazed that kerry could so eloquently state his position on abortion. and then to hear bush's initial response as, "you lost me there kerry" (paraphrased) was just priceless. how could that lose a person? kerry said what carter said and said pretty much what i'd say if asked about my position on the topic.<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> First of all, I cannot tell you how deeply I respect the belief about life and when it begins. I'm a Catholic, raised a Catholic. I was an altar boy. Religion has been a huge part of my life. It helped lead me through a war, leads me today.<br><br>But I can't take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone who doesn't share that article of faith, whether they be agnostic, atheist, Jew, Protestant, whatever. I can't do that.<br><br>But I can counsel people. I can talk reasonably about life and about responsibility. I can talk to people, as my wife Teresa does, about making other choices, and about abstinence, and about all these other things that we ought to do as a responsible society.<br><br>But as a president, I have to represent all the people in the nation. And I have to make that judgment.<br><br>Now, I believe that you can take that position and not be pro- abortion, but you have to afford people their constitutional rights. And that means being smart about allowing people to be fully educated, to know what their options are in life, and making certain that you don't deny a poor person the right to be able to have whatever the constitution affords them if they can't afford it otherwise.<br><br>That's why I think it's important. That's why I think it's important for the United States, for instance, not to have this rigid ideological restriction on helping families around the world to be able to make a smart decision about family planning. <br><br>You'll help prevent AIDS. <br><br>You'll help prevent unwanted children, unwanted pregnancies. <br><br>You'll actually do a better job, I think, of passing on the moral responsibility that is expressed in your question. And I truly respect it.<br><br>GIBSON: Mr. President, minute and a half.<br><br>BUSH: I'm trying to decipher that. <p><hr></blockquote><p>--<br>"I am mindful that diversity is one of the strengths of the country" --president bush on 9/27/05
That's the most frustrating thing here. I didn't mean to harp too much, because I think the public is getting cheated on the discourse big time. I just don't think that gives us an excuse to not look into these things, especially if they are important to us. Just look at this situation. You, Mojo, and I probably agree on nearly everything regarding abortion aside from legal technicalities. We should address those legalities, but never short-change each other in terms of what we want as citizens for ourselves and each other.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey
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