Now I get it. I was having trouble trying to understand the position you were coming from, but I get it now. You're position is bent over, and that's what you want the rest of America to do; bend over and take it. <br><br>"Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 in the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers." <br>Mr. Rove<br><br>Really? 100 died? I'm not interested in confirming your claim, but I can give you numbers too. <br><br>American Airlines flight 11 BOS-LAX (north tower of World Trade Center): 93 people: 82 passengers (including 5 hijackers), 9 flight attendants, 2 pilots <br>United Airlines flight 175 BOS-LAX (south tower of World Trade Center): 65 people: 56 passengers (including 5 hijackers), 7 flight attendants, 2 pilots <br>American Airlines flight 77 IAD-LAX (The Pentagon): 64 people: 58 passengers (including 5 hijackers), 4 flight attendants, 2 pilots <br>United Airlines flight 93 EWR-SFO (Shanksville PA.): 44 people: 37 passengers (including 4 hijackers), 5 flight attendants, 2 pilots <br><br>Not enough for you? How about this?<br><br>2602 people were listed as confirmed dead. 1585 identifed / 1161 victims unidentifed from the World Trade Center wreckage<br><br>90 people officially missing<br><br>125 Pentagon staffers killed or missing<br><br>But maybe you're bad with numbers. So, lets see. You have a problem with not being humane. And it makes you mad that they have to sit in a hot room. What I'm wondering is why you're not bothered by these.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>DLC, you're heart goes out to these terrorists, and that's what you care about. I could have posted pictures of rows of charred, broken bodies pulled from the Trade Center, but in your eyes, how can that compare to some murderer sweating?<br><br>I love this country, flaws and all. I wish we didn't have to put our soldiers in danger. I wish we didn't have to put our firefighters in danger, but I don't see anyone blocking them from entering a burning building, do you? They weren't forced to become firefighters. They chose to, just like our soldiers. They believed in serving this country. I don't entirely agree with this war, but you know what, we're there now, and while we are, I put my full support behind our troops. And not just that they come home, like you. <br><br>You and Zap are the worst kind of pussys. You talk about things you hear from people who slant the truth to serve their purpose, but you don't have a clue what the real truth is.<br><br>A soldier who has served there, told you what the truth is and you still blather out the same stuff like you never heard a thing. <br><br>You don't deal in logic, truth, or reason. You're a propaganda machine. You have no brains, heart, or loyalty. You're a parasite. You live off of this country and give nothing back. <br><br>You've lost any respect I had for you. <br><br><br><br>

This Thread is about IRAQ<br>All the 9/11 photos and comparisons are totally irrelevant to Iraq - <br><br>SADDAM had NOTHING to DO with it... <br>and that's pretty callous using inflamatory photos to try to make a totally ILLOGICAL POINT.<br><br>ALL sources have concluded- FYI: <br>(1) Saddam Had NO WMDs<br>(2) Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11<br>(3) Saddam had NO ties to Al Quada or Bin Laden<br> your analogy is SOO STUPID, Skul !!<br>They are TWO DIFFERNT things, man !!<br> <br><br>And even after all the atrocities many Nazis committed (like Eichman) even the worst offenders of genocide were given TRAILS !! They were convicted, BEFORE they received pounishment !!<br><br>Why? Because we respected LAW !! International LAW.<br>We're not bending 1 bit Skul- you're acting delerious !! <br>BUT You have to provide EVIDENCE and CONVICT... <br><br>the way you like it, we might as well go ahead and just kill all the detainees !! That's what people like you want- lets quit fscking around and just get it over and KILL them ALL - innocent and guilty- since you've already Tried and Convicted them in your head !!<br>{/sarcasm}<br><br>My question STILL is -How long can you hold someone with NO charges, and NO evidence? I have no doubts the majority there ARE likely guilty, but some innocents are probably there also, and maybe some of lesser crimes... if we have a CASE then present it ! <br>what are we going to do holding them "forever" - torture a confession from them? oh that's real democratic, humane, and JUST !!<br>IF they haven't gotten the information by now they probably NEVER will.<br>Lastly UNTIL they are convicted- treat them humanely according to the Geneva Convention. All W is doing is fueling the insurgents by his unorthodox policies of "Fsck the world - we're doing whatever the fsck we want !!"<br>That attitude is what got us into the current mess !!<br><br>David (OFI)<br>

So why perpetuate a conversation about Gitmo - which also has nothing to do with Iraq? If this thread is all about Iraq as you claim.<br><br>And PoW's are either traded for PoW's the other side have captured or released after the war is over - without being charged in the interrim. Difficult to trade PoW's when the otherside is chopping off their heads and dragging them through the streets.<br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Llewelyn on 06/24/05 12:11 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>

How can you breath through that pile of bullsh*t you've created?<br><br>I can't belive I have to educate you about these things. Oh wait, it's not that you're stupid. I keep forgetting. You choose to ignore what dosen't fit in to your ideals. <br><br>So, you're going to tell me that you didn't KNOW they've already gotten information ouf of the people at Gitmo that has led to more arrests? You want me to believe that you didn't KNOW that some of the people they release they RECAPTURED on the battlefield shooting at our troops? But hey, that's okay with you because you don't mind supplying the terrorists with more people to shoot at our soldiers because your heart bleeds for the poor people detained in Gitmo. <br><br>Make up your mind about what you're whining about. It's Bush, it's Gitmo, it's the war, it's this it's that. What a putz. <br>Well, we're there and that's reality.<br><br>So how about you either get behind the people trying to save lives over there, or shut the Fu*K up? <br><br>You've pretty much proven where your loyalty lies. The only thing left is for you to start screaming Allah Allah Allah. <br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> So why perpetuate a conversation about Gitmo - which also has nothing to do with Iraq? If this thread is all about Iraq as you claim. <p><hr></blockquote><p>I DIDN'T... go back and look at all my posts above !! They're Iraq, Iraq, Iraq...<br>it was Skul who made the erroneous comment I mentioned prisoners sitting in a hot cell. I never said ANYTHING about prisoners in a "hot cell" in this thread or any other (go find them!) - This thread was all about W excuses to invade Iraq...<br><br>WHY don't you ask Skul why HE changed the subject ??<br><br> <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> Difficult to trade PoW's when the otherside is chopping off their heads and dragging them through the streets. <p><hr></blockquote><p>No head chopping & dragging in streets in quite a while but they continue to bomb us. Again, a DIRECT result of W's poor planning and execution of transition.<br>The problem is the insurgents probably have many "leaders" not just 1 big one like a country would. That is hte nature of insurgents. That possibility was discussed many places BEFORE W invaded but he was so dam sure they'd be dancing... <br>That's one thing happened in NAM pal... sure the NVAR were the big force but there were a lot of smaller local VIet Cong under loose regional control... much like the insurgents in Iraq. VERY difficult to "deal" (as in POWs) with and negotiate with. like a 7 headed hydra - wack one head, another appears. We didn't learn a dam thing !!<br><br>David (OFI)<br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I DIDN'T... go back and look at all my posts above !!<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Your very first post in this thread was a reply to Skul who had commented on Durbin's statements, which were made about Gitmo, which is a prison facility set up to hold combatants from the Afganistan war.<br><br>Just in case you have trouble finding it:<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>One Durbin didn't say soldiers that's the " right wing Spin " - he said AMERICANS which was true... American did those acts... they were NOT equivalent to what Nazi's did or Russian gulags- but he NEVER mentioned the word "soldiers'...<br><br>but to just pick on Durban some, he just did a MOST stupid thing.. you never mention any criticism of this Administration and the word Nazi or gulag or Holocost in the same breathe... He should have KNOWN (it was a certainty) that his words would be twisted- for that act was STUPID to the nth degree.<br><br><br>Lastly your President did more to kill American soldiers than Durbin, Newsweek, or any other "rag" could do in months... he sent troops into Iraq NOT fully equipped... the body armor was missing and so was the vehicle armor on more than 2/3 rd of the units. THAT cost many more lives than the acts you cite... AND he didn't have to do it in March 2003... in fact he didn't have to do it AT ALL. but he was in a big RUSH because a few more weeks and the UN inspectors would discover what W already knew- Saddam had no WMDs!! So he pushed them in without all of the protection they needed.<br><br>SO Skul you want to point fingers - point to 1600 Penn Ave in DC FIRST, pal !! that azzhole got 1728 and counting GIs needlessly killed dude.<br>Saddam was NO threat to us- HE was NOT involved in 9/11.<br><br>so what happened to Binny boy, Skul?<br>Funny Bush never mentions him any more !!<br><br><br>David (OFI)<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>So your entry to this thread opens with commentary on how Skul misunderstood Durbin's Gitmo statements. THEN you turned to Iraq.<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

LOOK through that WHOLE copy of my quote you posted- where DO I say "Gitmo"?? can't find it <br><br>I was talking about Durbin's statement and the hoopla over it... - I never mentioned Gitmo as the SUBJECT- I did a word search of yur last post and the only time "Gitmo" came up was YOUR USE-.<br>and after Durbins comments, right to Iraq- the TOPIC of the thread !!<br><br>try reading the DETAILS, Lues. <br>maybe a Reading COMPREHENSION class would be in order for ya !!<br><br><br><br>David (OFI)<br>

You don't explicitely need to say GITMO - you referenced Durbin's comments which were about Gitmo, not Abu Graib, not Iraq, not Iraqi detainees.<br><br>By referencing Durbin's comments you are refering to Gitmo. You really should try to gain an understanding of what you are saying before you try to say it.<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

Oh my, I read all the original Dune series in my early teens. Even though I loved the books, and they stayed on my mind for some time afterward, I had never thought of all the parallels between the Dune series and all the stuff going on now. Thanks for the link watcher.<br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> You don't explicitely need to say GITMO <p><hr></blockquote><p>Damn right I don't ! <br>I didn't even IMPLY Gitmo- My comments were he said Americans NOT soldiers ...like many CLAIMED I didn't even mention the torture issue... it was all CLARIFYING Durbins' statement...<br><br>Can't people see the very ones who slam Durbin don't even get THEIR OWN words right !! They slander his statement - insert soldiers for Americans... now Durbin was worng - but so are the spin meisters who twisted his words.<br><br>The English language is very precise IF you use it correctly. I measure / judge every fricking word I type for accuracy. I suggest a few others do so also.<br><br>David (OFI)<br>