Yes, you have a point in this respect. At least he was charged with something. And how old is the youngest detainee at GTMO again?<br><br>

Gee, I dunno. How old was the youngest victim of 9/11? There were kids on those planes. Remember the news story about the two women (and their kids) who were off to Disneyland that day. By coincidence, each was on one of the two planes that struck the Towers because they had used their frequent flyer miles to buy their tickets. Paige Hackel was a friend of my wife's family. My wife worked for her husband many years ago. Kids were on those planes. So how old is the youngest detainee? I couldn't care less.<br><br>

I'm not denying anyone's suffering. I am worried about the overall erosion of civil liberties and human rights, regardless of the what brought them about.<br><br>

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! <br><br><br>Fine. You worry about it. Somebody's gotta do it. I'll remain confident that things will improve. It may get worse before it get's better. But better it will get, and I'll stay focused on that, thankyouverymuch.<br><br><br><br>And now back to our regularly scheduled wrist-wringing...<br><br><br>*I said I was done here. Why didn't I listen to me?* <br><br>

Agreed.<br><br>

Well our Internet was down the whole day so once I got home... no access.<br><br>This thread is about done, but I'll throw 2¢ in any way.<br>I understand Steveg- 9/11 touched him personally and I have great respect for that.<br><br>I have some problems with our dealings with the "accused" terrorists (they haven't been convicted of any crime):<br><br>(1) after so many months - charge them and give them the chance to defend themselves.<br>The problem with capturing and holding ANY one indefinitely with no charges opens the door for many abuses of civil rights across the Globe.. You can grab anyone - any where -guilty or not and just hold them... what kind of International Law or standard is that? What if some Iranians (or you pick someone) decided to take some Americans and hold us forever - no charges. Would that be fair ?<br>Maybe the people at Git-mo had something to do with 9/11, maybe NOT. How can anyone tell if they haven't been CONVICTED ?<br><br>(2) OK, Maybe this is not as serious torture as the Nazis, or the Russians, etc did.. at least from THIS evidence (time will tell). no fingers, feet , toes etc chopped off... no burns, cuts, electrocutions...<br>but their treatment is certainly not humane... agreed ?<br>IF someone has NOT been proven GUILTY of a crime- how can you treat them like this... we treat animals better.<br><br>(3) Lastly -torture has been proven NOT to work for any purpose but to inflict pain and revenge. For interrogation, it's worthless. And if one's govt participates in said activities - you can be sure if any of yours are captured - they'll get the same treatment or worse. One of the reasons NOT to engage in torture is to protect your own men if they're captured. <br>AND we, the USA, claims to be better than everyone else, more just, the model of Democracy of the "free world"... well friends, with this abuse- we look like a pack of hypocritical liars. This abuse does more for the recruitment of terrorists than it does good for our cause. <br> Bottom Line: It' might feel "good" like revenge for some, BUT It's a losing proposition! <br><br><br>David (OFI)<br>

Is this a thread worth bringing back?

I dunno ? but I certainly missed this thread , did find this



I guess the difference would be McVeigh

1 - Was an American
2 - Crime was committed on American soil

McVeigh gets a trial by civilian legal system

Gitmo detainees - essentially is a POW Camp , comes under military law not civilian

1 - detainees are not Americans
2 - combat was committed on foreign soil

Now maybe I am wrong but I never heard a POW ever ever getting a trail of any kind . They were place into camps and released after the war

However Terrorist are not enemy combatants since they represent no country but rather their own ideals . So they should be treated as criminals and placed under the civilian legal system

IMO

Have we learned anything since? Some might admit they have. Some have gone off the deep end and who knows what they think.

I think we have learned something. You were being ridiculed back then and now the world, starting with our administration, for the most part agrees with you.

That's a start. And it is also the start of a weekend of beach weather and I am done messing with this grant.

Good afternoon and goodnight. Martinis and kayaks and swimming in the quarry await.

Have fun take some photos - what quarry ? I thought you were beachfront or lake front ?