then the response should provide a different perspective on the story or scenario that CE presented rather than attacking his intent. <br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.

I agree, but as Sean said, the content should be discussed, not his reason for posting.<br><br><br>

Honestly, I don't see any reason why motive should be off-limits. If a post is driven by an agenda — good or bad — that agenda is as valid a discussion point as the content of the post itself. And in what voice or spirit a reply is rendered is also fair game. Proof that ya can't please nobody not none of the time, dangit! <br><br>

Reminds me of Falluja<br><br>How The U.S. Murdered a City <br><br>Fallujah: The Truth at Last <br><br>Doctor Salam Ismael took aid to Fallujah last month. This is a report of his visit.<br><br>02/17/05 - "SW" - IT WAS the smell that first hit me, a smell that is difficult to describe, and one that will never leave me. It was the smell of death. Hundreds of corpses were decomposing in the houses, gardens and streets of Fallujah. Bodies were rotting where they had fallen-bodies of men, women and children, many half-eaten by wild dogs. <br><br>A wave of hate had wiped out two-thirds of the town, destroying houses and mosques, schools and clinics. This was the terrible and frightening power of the US military assault. <br><br>The accounts I heard over the next few days will live with me forever. You may think you know what happened in Fallujah. But the truth is worse than you could possibly have imagined.<br><br>more <br><br>

Oh yah. The ONE AND ONLY truth, right? Convenient.<br><br>Collateral damage is wrong and terrible. Civilians — ordinary men, women, and children being cut down like that is unacceptable. I think we agree on that. So why not post pages of gruesome photos of more innocents blasted to dust by the insurgents in Iraq? Why not post pics of unsuspecting citizens being cut down or vaporized by terrorists all over the world? <br><br>Oh wait a minute! You're educating us. And here I though I smelled one of those agenda-thingies. Silly me. <br><br>

nice sarcasm, but any "education" he/she is preaching is falling on deaf ears it appears.<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> So why not post pages of gruesome photos of more innocents blasted to dust by the insurgents in Iraq? Why not post pics of unsuspecting citizens being cut down or vaporized by terrorists all over the world? <p><hr></blockquote><p>i can't tell you if she/he was trying to educate or inform or complain or what, but the reason i tend to focus on our actions is not for simple education; rather, it's because our gov't that we elect can control our military actions -- we don't control the decision being made on the other side of the battle.<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.

Sarcasm? Sean, I asked a legitimate question. It has nothing to do with who controls the actions of whom. I don't condone the non-combatant/civilian deaths we've caused in Iraq — or Afghanistan, either, for that matter. But it seems there are those that are quite content to pardon whatever the insurgents or terrorists do as long as it provides a chance to proclaim how thoroughly evil the U.S. is.<br><br>The actions of the U.S. military may seem heavy-handed to those of us far-removed from the battle field, but I dare-say the actions of the insurgents have been overtly murderous and without any regard whatsoever for human life. In fact, I'd love to hear MacTeak's take on this.<br><br>Deaf ears. Blind eyes. Whatever is convenient, eh?<br><br>

While we strive to educate ourselves so that these events will never happen again<br>the fact is that while we are "educated" and we have said it will never happen again<br>these events are still happening, case in point, the story of Wounded Knee did not<br>end in 1890, it is still going on today. The heavy handed government is still<br>committing acts of terrorism against the Native Peoples.<br><br>Chronology of Oppression At Pine Ridge<br><br>Pamphlet:  Victims of Progress, Early Fall 1977, p. 8-9.<br>Author: Anonymous<br>Re: Reign of Terror 1973-1976<br><br>December 1890<br>Massacre of 350 women, children and men near Wounded Knee on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, considered the last "official" massacre of Indians by U.S. forces.<br><br>January 1972<br>Raymond Yellow Thunder, a dignified older man, was harassed, beaten, tortured and humiliated before a crowd at an American Legion Dance and finally murdered in Gordon, Nebraska.<br><br>January 21, 1973<br>Wesley Bad Heart Bull, knifed in chest after an earlier fight with the same man and after a bartender in Buffalo Gap put a bounty on his life. His killer was charged with second-degree manslaughter and finally acquitted.<br><br>April 1973<br>Glen Three Stars, a known goon, and Tote (John) Richards, also a goon, assaulted Hobart Keith, member of the tribal council, active in the impeachment effort.<br><br>April 17, 1973<br>Frank Clearwater (47, from Cherokee, N.C.) was sitting in the church building during the Wounded Knee Liberation; he was unarmed. A bullet crashed through the wall and tore out a substantial part of his skull and brain. He died April 25th.<br><br>April 27, 1973<br>Buddy Lamont, forced from a bunker in Wounded Knee, coughing and choking because of CS gas, was slammed with a heavy burst of machine gun fire and killed.<br><br>June 1973<br>Clarence Cross and his brother Vernal were shot by BIA police while they slept in a car parked by the side of the road. Clarence died, and Vernal, who was also injured, was charged with his murder. For over a year, he was followed, harassed and attacked by BIA police, goon squad and FBI.<br><br>July 29, 1973<br>At Manderson, Pine Ridge - Curtis Ghost struck with a club by off duty BIA policeman, Jonathan Twist. Minutes later 2 BIA policemen arrived, grabbed Ghost and put him in a car. They also knocked down and beat Leo White Hawk. Cathy Eagle Hawk (8 Months Pregnant) was maced in the face by Twist. Harassment because of their identification with AIM.<br><br>August 31, 1973<br>Hearing confirmed the fact that WKLD/OC had been under constant surveillance since its National Meeting Memorial weekend at the Imperial 400 Hotel in Rapid City. 48 out of a total of 54 S.D. FBI agents were in Rapid City at that time.<br><br>October 12, 1973<br>Jailing of James Romero and the Miguel family of Phoenix, Arizona--racist move by FBI to brainwash American public that AIM is a plot to disrupt matters in the local community. <br><br> <br><br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Sarcasm?<p><hr></blockquote><p><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> Oh wait a minute! You're educating us. And here I though I smelled one of those agenda-thingies. Silly me. <p><hr></blockquote><p>who is condoning the actions of the insurgents and terrorists? terrorism is always wrong and i don't even try to compare our actions with theirs. i don't think the U.S. is evil, but i also think that our "go it nearly alone" and "bring em on" actions are pretty easy to have interpreted as evil by people in the middle east, which is crummy when we're trying to win hearts and minds. i want us to succeed and i want to see iraq turn out as an ally instead of as a friend of iran (though, this doesn't bode well given the guy who is likely to be the next prime minister of iraq) . . . in any regard, i don't see anyone defend the terrorism around here. <br><br>i think we'll see republicans and democrats support the efforts in iraq from this point forward. of course we all want success in iraq, but that doesn't mean that we won't speak out against those actions that can hamper our efforts at success.<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.

Ah yes, hearts & minds. Tell ya what, as far as the Iraqi people are concerned — your average citizen — I think we have won some hearts & minds. The relative success of the elections is an indication of that. There would have been no such thing had we not taken Saddam out of power. Forget the BS about WMD and ties to 9/11. Removing him from power goes on the plus side of the column — even if we didn't go in under the most credible of reasons.<br><br>Was Fallujah overkill? Maybe. I'm in no position to judge. But how many civilian lives have been lost to the indescriminate attacks of insurgents who are largely NOT Iraqis? The hearts and minds that we've absolutely not won are those of the hardline muslim extemists who have yearned for decades to destroy everything the U.S. embodies! And I doubt we ever will — short of swearing off Wall Street and totally embracing their doctrine.<br><br>But nobody wants to add the slaughter rought by the terrorists the the balance sheet. And I'm not even talking a/b U.S. casualties. I'm talking about Iraqis fer chrissakes!<br><br>No, I'm not accusing anyone of being a terrorist cheerleader. But I'm sure as hell saying that the refusal by some to admit that there are two sides contributing to the current conflict is as good as excusing terror.<br><br>