Loc: The Wizard's Balcony
You mean to say that there's other intelligunt people on this planet? Hell, I thought all there was was just a bunch of poor idiots tryin' there best to get over hear and eat beef jerky and vote for their daddy's uncle's to run things so the heathens from the dirt countries wouldn't invade our shores and we could teach them how to live civilised-like.<br><br>Don't everyone want SUVs and grass to mow?<br><br>
Since I wasn't aware of the world during the time Kerry accused his shipmates of war crimes I seriously am confused why his speaking out is called "heroic"? From all the "common knowledge" I know about the Vietnam era I thought the war was wildly unpopular so speaking out against it wouldn't have brought any personal hardship on those speaking against it. Wasn't there a HUGE anti-war movement when Kerry gave his congressional testomony? If so then what would be "heroic"? Of course if he had spoken about these war crimes while he was in Vietnam that would have been heroic or if I'm mistaken about the state of the anti-war movement at the time of his testomony and he really was a pioneer of the anti-war movement then I could see the label being applied.<br><br>Who can provide some histoical perspective on this?<br><br>Dean Davis<br><br>-----<br>"They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet" -- Michael Moore on his fellow US citizens
I can't spend the time giving you an historical perspective only to say yours is completely wrong. <br><br>Briefly though: <br><br>1) The antiwar movement was not "wildly" popular. The SDS (students for a democratic society) were doing wildly unpopular things like closing DC in protest by trashing intersections even in the year Kerry gave his testimony. <br><br>2) Kerry did not accuse his shipmates of war crimes. Read his senate testimony word for word from start to finish. Then listen to the praise heaped on him by senators Pell and others. These are not lightweight senators. Do not read snippets from conservative web sites. It has to be read in context. It might be that you still won't get it unless you understand exactly what was going on that year. But it is well worth trying. That was one chunk of history that I thought would never repeat itself. But here we are again repeating it.<br><br>3) The vietnam veterans against the war was a very pioneering group. No one can deny that. They were very effective at bringing that war to a close. <br><br>Who can bring a perspective? Someone who lived through it and protested in front of the Nixon White House. I did but I am a screaming liberal. Don't listen to me. Yoyo did. Ask him for a perspective. Maybe this is something that cannot be read in books and we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes every generation.<br><br><br><br><br>paper cuts hurt
I'm a screaming liberal too, Paul--unbelievable, therefore <br><br>I protested whenever I could. Got gassed several times. Never got arrested, though. One of my fondest memories was reciting the Fish Cheer, with Country Joe McDonald leading the crowd, in front of Nixon's White House <br><br>
_________________________ MACTECHubi dolor ibi digitus
You're a liberal too? What I should of said is that you are a liberal who was there in front of the White House who can explain it all without getting nasty and personal like I do. I try to not sound preachy but faced with ignorance I turn into an a-hole. You seem to keep your calm. Teaching without preaching is a fine art. I flunk.<br><br>SIDEBAR: I use the word ignorance above not as a pejorative. Ignorance only means lack of knowledge not the inability to learn. Learning about the Vietnam War era from internet web sites is stupid because one remains ignorant.<br><br>paper cuts hurt
Thanks for the insight.<br>But...<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Do not read snippets from conservative web sites.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Your presumptive conclusions on what I read and don't read are getting tiresome.<br><br>This attitude that those who subscribe to conseritive ideas are somehow under-educated or keep themselves in some sort of news cocoon is really the pinnicle of elitist thinking.<br><br>Dean Davis<br><br>-----<br>"They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet" -- Michael Moore on his fellow US citizens
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>he was man enough to say that the free fire zones and the practice of dropping grenades into bunkers, which often contained women and children, was abominable. kudos to kerry.<p><hr></blockquote><p>If Charles Manson came out and said that killing innocent people was abiminable, would you give him kudos too?<br><br>I think the point here is that Kerry DID those things.<br><br>
well, i think the larger point is not to subscribe to any snippets when you can do a little research and read complete transcripts (e.g., kerry's testimony).<br><br>and, what's wrong with elitist thinking when it's less snobbery and more intellectual and factual? <br><br>"Tribal sovereignty means that, it's sovereign. You're a—you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity. And, therefore, the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities." dubya 8.6.04
the manson comment is silly. in any regard, it's even more impressive that kerry was able to realize the wrongs and trumpet them to the world in an attempt to stop them and protect more lives from being lost.<br><br>"Tribal sovereignty means that, it's sovereign. You're a—you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity. And, therefore, the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities." dubya 8.6.04
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I use the word ignorance above not as a pejorative.<p><hr></blockquote><p>What a steam pile. Often times I have heard one person say to another, "You are so ignorant. But, I mean that in the nice way."<br>Using the word "ignorance" is, by one definition, always pejorative. And if you are not using it as such why would you turn into an a-hole when faced with it? My post was asking for further information because my current knowledge conflited with a widely held opinion. My post wasn't,"John Kerry's no hero because there is nothing heroic about speaking about a widely held belief of the time." <br>Every person possesses ignorance (by your definition) on many subjects. But if you turn into a a-hole when faced with it then I can only conclude you belive that your have no holes in your knowledge and are thus not ignorant and have not tolerance for those unlike you. Otherwise when faced with your own ignorance you'd be an a-hole to yourself.<br>(Of course I really don't believe that but sometimes your posts tend to make it hard not to.)<br><br>Dean Davis<br><br>-----<br>"They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet" -- Michael Moore on his fellow US citizens
Xplain's use of MacNews, AppleCentral and AppleExpo are not affiliated with Apple, Inc. MacTech is a registered trademark of Xplain Corporation. AppleCentral, MacNews, Xplain, "The journal of Apple technology", Apple Expo, Explain It, MacDev, MacDev-1, THINK Reference, NetProfessional, MacTech Central, MacTech Domains, MacForge, and the MacTutorMan are trademarks or service marks of Xplain Corp. Sprocket is a registered trademark of eSprocket Corp. Other trademarks and copyrights appearing in this printing or software remain the property of their respective holders.
All contents are Copyright 1984-2010 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon.