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browser wars and comments #1830 07/01/01 03:01 AM
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johnengler Offline OP
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ok... here's my ranting thread.<br><br>I must first say that I love the Mac Business Unit of MS. They are a great group of folks, very helpful, and great programers in the Mac Community...<br><br>I however, would love to support the other browsers out there in the Mac Market. (using mozilla right now to see how the development is doing - thanks Ian for the suggestion)<br><br>But how come no body in the market besides Microsoft makes their browsers as Mac-like as they could be. I've grown very accustomed to using the command key to scroll up and down websites with my mouse, so that I can save the trip over to the scroll bar on the far right.... Only MSIE supports this that I know of... I think Omni web might as well, but I know that most of the other alternatives don't. This is something that's straight out of the finder... and very natural to me.<br><br>Second, MSIE allows you to delete bookmarks, history files, etc... with a command+delete keystroke. With mozilla I have to choose "delete' from the edit menu, or use the "del" key... just a little thing, but again, a simple part of the finder commands that seems so ingrained to me that it's annoying...<br><br>When typing in a form, hitting "return" with IE generally submits the form... not so with Mozilla....<br><br>so, I guess my complaint is that MSIE seems so natural to me, it's hard to switch... sort of like Entourage is so natural now (thanks to OE 4, 4.5 and 5) that "mail" from Apple seems so foreign....<br><br>ok, enough compaining... what is everyone else's thought?<br><br>***<br>"I know God won't give me anything I can't handle. I just wish He didn't trust me so much." --Mother Teresa


"In the old days, you'd finish a day's work and announce, 'I'm done.' Nobody ever does that now. There's never enough time." -- Elliott Masie
Re: browser wars and comments [Re: johnengler] #1831 07/05/01 08:02 AM
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Netscape Communicator 4.75 is my browser of choice.<br><br>Its fast, stable, great interface, and has mail built in - and, its not a RAM hog, at all.<br><br>I think the built in email thing is the biggest advantage.<br><br>Cipher13<br><br>

Re: browser wars and comments [Re: johnengler] #1832 07/05/01 03:10 PM
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I am with the bloke below, the Netscape user I don't agree that anything about IE is "Mac like" despite all of the good people who should know better than me trying to convince me ... the reason perhaps for that is that all of the things I grew to believe were "Mac like" ways of surfing the net and using a browser were learnt on a Mac, in Netscape ..so.... when I start MSIE I find all of these things missing?? a real big question mark? about whether it is Mac like here..!<br><br>I still find that Netscape lets me into more sites and gives me less problems and what is better,.. I know it so well. <br>I don't want a new browser, I am happy with the one I have. I don't want new standards. They are good enough for me now.<br>I wish that people would stop and realize that there is a lot being tossed out the window because somebody is wanting exactly that!... <br>As once it is tossed then they have the market spot! <br>...and no one can go back because it isn't there any more...<br>when all along there was nothing wrong with the original, no need to make it more bloated with useless features that only benefit advertisers and those developing for advertisers.<br>Well I say they can all go stuff themselves. I don't want ads shoved down my throat. Ads for things that I will never use. Sleazy el cheapo companies clamouring for the right to bombard me with stuff that I would never investigate, never buy and in most cases be offended that it is advertised for sale at all! I am going to have to turn a deaf ear to it all since NONE of it is to my liking. <br><br>


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Re: browser wars and comments [Re: johnengler] #1833 07/05/01 08:49 PM
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I'm with cypher on this old chestnut; Netscape 4.75. Why bother with running a separate e-mail client when it's included alongside a browser which is fast (faster than IE in most cases) and only has problems due to lazy PC/Microsoft-based programmers.<br><br>

Re: browser wars and comments [Re: johnengler] #1834 07/07/01 02:19 AM
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I agree with John that IE 5 for the Mac really hits the spot for Mac users, but I do think that by the time Opera is ready to roll out, it may be there too. It's just too different right now to fit in, but for as fast as it's been and standards compliant as it is, I'll rough it even if it's not.<br><br>Mozilla is still X11 at its heart, so the work to make it more Maclike will come from the community after it's really released I fear. However, it's pretty fast when it's launched and does not devour resources to do it. Downside is that the footprint and loadup times are too high.<br><br>What I dislike, and I've only yet seen with IE 5, is that IE will degrade over time - either when the history of an indvidual window grows large, or when you have a number of windows open. I've assigned it tons of RAM, so that's not it. But it's a pain when you have as many windows open when testing a web app like I do.<br><br>Just my 3.<br><br>

Re: browser wars and comments #1835 07/07/01 04:59 AM
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great to see you again in the boards there GreenAnt...<br><br>I guess the way I look at it is that MSIE is the only browser to support more standards than the other options, and you know... those new standards aren't just for advertising... they're the future of the internet. Things like XML, CSS, fancier DHTML, etc... all of it's coming and if our Mac browsers don't support it, we're going to start missing out on a lot of the internet, becuase I can tell you from using a PC at work, there are a lot of really great web designers out there that aren't using a mac, and could give a [censored] about supporting a Mac's browser... so, I'm really glad the MSIE 5 supports as many standards as it does, and still does it in a Mac like fashion....<br><br>I just wish that the alternatives did, and were more solid I'm all for alternatives to MSIE, I just haven't found any to live up to it yet...<br><br>***<br>"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." --Ronald Reagan


"In the old days, you'd finish a day's work and announce, 'I'm done.' Nobody ever does that now. There's never enough time." -- Elliott Masie
hmmm, [Re: johnengler] #1836 07/10/01 07:17 AM
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Wow, I never thought I would write this, but I now use Mozilla for most of my web browsing. I generally use a brower until it crashes, then I opt for another one. I used to love IE, but it's a bit slow for the more complex pages.<br><br>Previously, I would download Mozilla, use it for a few minutes until it would crash, then trash it. But now it's my main browser except for the banking/investment sites. That Gecko engine thing it very sharp indeed!<br><br>--geesh, I can't read the font for this site while I'm writing this. And what's up with all those icons all over the messages here? It's a bit noisey.<br><br>

Re: hmmm, #1837 07/16/01 01:47 AM
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Same here. I love Mozilla. It's fast, stable, looks great, has great email support, and I use it 99% of the time. I am forced to use IE 5.1.1 for online banking, and then I quit and reload Mozilla. I get tired of waiting for Omniweb to load pages. It's a great looking browser, but dog slow. IE just plain sucks.<br><br>I like the Austrian way better.


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