Reminds me of the song that has the lines in it:<br><br>"Who are the terrorists, who are the heroes, double standard...."<br><br>From a reggae song by MackaB.<br><br>Depends which side of the fence you are on obviously. <br><br>Your post was quite interesting though, thanks for pointing out the oddities surrounding the video tape of that. I haven't seen it and don't want to. I can't say I know what to think about all of that in light of what you posted. But, I do know that in times of war and such, there is a lot of DISINFORMATION being produced. So it is not beyond the realm of possibility that it is a staged and fabricated event. I am not saying it is, just giving the idea equal time so to speak. <br><br>

Just a little update on the US "torture".<br>Here's Sean's rape photos...<br>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38464<br><br>Dean Davis

I can't find any photos posted by Sean nor anything about them on the Boston Globe website, which they refer to?<br><br>

skul, you're defending a lost case.<br><br>in the middle east the latest scandal of the humiliations is another proof that a secular, democratic society is not working. the secular dictator Saddam did the same thing that the democratic Bush is doing in the same prison. the solution is obvious. only an islamic state with strong islamic values is the system that doesn't allow such things to happen. the option Bush layed out for the middle east is not an option anymore. Bush have lost even the small minority that has supported or at least didn't disapprove his vision of a democratic middle east.<br><br>the damage that has been done to the american image in the last 3-4 years is tremendous. extremist islamism are on the rise like never before. the world is a more dangerous place for the average citizen, because of the US and because of the anti-US groups. Bush stirred up something that should've been dealt with in a comletely different manner.<br><br>the current administration has obviosly failed. if the US didn't have such a strong foundation, the country would have already fallen into pieces. if you guys reelect the same bunch the bloody end of the great times of the US will begin.<br><br>

Skul, you seriously need to chill. Harboring anger is no good for you. Defending it is worse. Not that we shouldn't all be outraged, but you're taking it to a personal level and getting farther and farther from reason. What happened to Berg is unconscionable. And so is what the U.S. admin has allowed to happen in Iraq. The situation has gone from bad to worse, and over-reaction is not the way to quell the unrest and hatred.<br><br>I love and support my country, but right now, I'm appalled and embarrassed by what we've done — even if the specific actions are those of a handful of ill-advised buck privates. <br><br>Step back and take a long hard look at the big picture. It took me a while to do it, and I didn't like what I saw. But now, we all have to seek ways to end this mess like rational human beings, not hate-filled moral commandos.<br><br>Take a deep breath. Step back and look at this mess objectively, then think a/b a more positive way to channel your energy.<br><br>

Steve you got the right idea<br><br>

Very well said Ivan. I couldn't agree more. The previous president Bush, Sr., knew that this was a hornet's nest and had enough sense to NOT disturb it. All the present president Bush has done is to create an incubator for radical Islamists and we are going to pay for it dearly for years to come. As much as we have the ideal of democracy in our heads for that part of the world, it ain't gonna work there especially with the way we are trying to promote it. Heaven only knows what other techniques are being employed on these Iraqi prisoners. Let's all remember, we are talking lots of CIA involvement here and they can be just as brutal and nasty as anything Saddam could come up with. That's their modus operandi and if you think it is otherwise, then you are just living an illusion. <br><br>

Should we hand it over to Israel? It's not important to me that we put an American flag in there. All I care about is that when we leave, we don't have to look over our shoulders, wondering when the next 9-11 happens.<br><br>"You're off the edge of the map, mate! Here there be monsters!"

Thanks for the reality check. As I said, it had been a very long day. <br><br>As for taking things on "a personal level", once, just once Steve I'd like to be able to post my opinion have be personally attacked. I know it's a lot to expect when dealing with people who have the maturity level of a child. <br><br>Over all the quality of this forum has nose dived. When things got really hot and there were raging political posts, I was one of those blowing steam. By the same token, when we all agreed that things were getting out of hand, most of us, including me, calmed down. There were a couple of people who I especially mended fences with. When Stan did some house cleaning, I thought the personal attacks and slurs would be a thing of the past. I was wrong. There is still an element here that needs to go.<br><br>"You're off the edge of the map, mate! Here there be monsters!"

element here that needs to go?<br><br>