Torture? That wasn't torture? Humiliation, yes. <br><br>No, I'll tell you what, we go after these animals where it hurts them. We announce that from this time forward we douse our bullest in pigs blood. Any terrorist killed will be buried with animal intestens. They aren't afraid of us because they think that they receive a reward in Heaven. Well, they'll never see it, if they believe they're too soiled.<br><br>Of course we would never do that. We have to follow rules. I seem to remember the reason we beat the British in the revolution was because they followed rules too, while we hid behind rocks and trees. <br><br>"You're off the edge of the map, mate! Here there be monsters!"

I honestly don't know. The problem is that our country is being run by hand wrigers. Teddy Rosevelt would have steamrolled over these buggers and it would be over. <br><br>These people in this country who hate Bush are so messed up it boggles my mind. They're like someone driving a bus full of kids, but instead of looking at the road they're looking over their shoulder and fussing about kids talking in the bus. <br>All of us, every American should be focused on stamping out terrorists. Not using terrorsts to undermind the President. <br><br>If we as a country fall apart it will be because of people who wail and cry about bad, mean Bush, instead of working on the real problem. <br><br>"You're off the edge of the map, mate! Here there be monsters!"

Fact is, 2 wrongs do not a right make. What has been done on both sides of the idealogical fence is flat out wrong. To Western cultures, a blood-thirsty act is barbaric and repulsive, while to Middle Eastern cultures, acts of sexuality — normal (whatever that is) or perverted are repugnant. I'm as horrified as you, but within the context of vastly different cultures, the playing field is more level than one might think. More important, keep in mind that the extremists represent a very small segment of Islam, just as the GI's running those prisons do not represent all Americans.<br><br>I would hope that these insurgents are caught and tried for their acts — just as the accused GI's should be for their's. And yeah, I think Rummy shouild resign. He screwed up big-time and shouod answer for it.<br><br>Them's my dos centavos.<br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Torture? That wasn't torture? Humiliation, yes. <p><hr></blockquote><p>you are clearly not paying attention. we have already had rumsfeld and others testify that the worst is yet to come (e.g., including rape) and you feel comfy calling it mere humiliation? the <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/10/red.cross.report/index.html">red cross report</a> from early this year was already claiming torture as well. again, up to 90% of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib were arrested and detained by mistake and they allege that some torture led to deaths. how often does mere humiliation lead to death?<br><br>----<br>"even if we get bin Laden or Zawahiri now, it is 2 years 2 late. Al Qaeda is a very different org now. It has had time to adapt. The administration should have finished this job." Leverett, former Bush Nat’l Security Cncl staff specialist.

Demanding that Rumsfield leave is, in my opinion, so foolish. He's as removed from those soldiers, as Michael Eisner is from the popcorn vendor in Disneyland.<br><br>Do you know how many layers of authority there are between those guards and Rumsfield? Can you really expect that he's issuing personal orders to every man and woman in every branch of the military? <br>Seven soldiers out of one hundred and fifty thousand. <br><br>Democrats are doing nothing more than using this as a tool to get more power in office for their party. They don't give a flying rip about what those soldiers did. All they care about is how to further their party goals. How can we trust the future of our country when those wanting the power are nothing more than petty children?<br><br>"You're off the edge of the map, mate! Here there be monsters!"

Ah. Thanks for putting into caring and cogent words what I couldn't get out coherently past my frustration, Steve. Well put.<br><br>

He's as removed from those soldiers, as Michael Eisner is from the popcorn vendor in Disneyland.<br><br><br>LOL...great analogy. I agree he's pretty far removed, but at the end of the day he's the 'man' in charge of the whole mess. It's also more symbolic than anything else. End result will be that the administration will hire someone else with a similar background and principles, and nothing's really going to get solved.<br><br>Then again, I don't know what the other option is. Sensitivity training for soldiers? Now THERE's the ultimate oxymoron. <br><br><br>[color:red]You slap my back, I'll slap yours!</font color=red>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>we go after these animals where it hurts them.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Kettle, meet Pot. Pot, Kettle.<br><br>

A. I'm only refering to the PROOF of what I've seen. People can report till their blue in the face. Until there is proof, it's all talk. So, when I refer to what happened, it's only what's proven.<br><br>B. Yes, I do pay attention, but I don't get suckered in by every hand wringing, chest beating political hack, like some other boobs.<br><br>Prisoners of Saddam had their hands cut off, ears cut off, they were tortured with electric drills through their heads. Can you even being to compare the treatment of prisoners between us and them? <br><br>"You're off the edge of the map, mate! Here there be monsters!"

Excuse me, but the fact is it happened under his watch — something he himself admits — and he did nothing, said nothing, and in effect sanctioned it by those lapses. Doesn't matter if he personally issued orders to each and every GI, or was buffered by more layers than grandma's lasagna. He's the man. He messed. He needs to be held accountable beyond writing "I'm sorry" 100 times on the blackboard.<br><br>Screaming "NUKE 'EM ALL" isn't the answer. I admit, I don't know what the answer is, but I know what it isn't.<br><br>